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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Intersection Between Homophobia and Misogyny

36 replies

TheUnforgiven · 12/03/2014 12:42

Last night I was in a restaurant with my (female) fiancee, when a man approached me and said 'I saw you from over there, and just wanted to let you know that you are beautiful.' I cooly thanked him, and turned back to my partner. I wasn't rude at this point- it wasn't necessarily clear to him that my partner and I were 'together,' but from my body language it was clear that I wasn't interested.

After I had turned away, he carried on- 'So I want to get to know you.' I told him I wasn't interested. He insisted 'I want to see if I like your personality.' I repeated that I wasn't interested, and that I was having dinner with my fiancee.

At this point his demeanour completely changed, and he bent to shout in my face 'you guys are a couple? You make me sick. You people are disgusting.' The fury was unbelievable. My partner told him to leave, and thankfully he did. We continued our meal, slightly humiliated while other diners threw sympathetic glances our way.

I was talking about it with my partner after he left, trying to rationalise what had just happened. We experience homophobia almost every time we go out together (we live in London), but it usually manifests as dismissiveness toward our relationship, and attacks on our legitimacy as a couple, ie. comments like 'lesbians! That's hot!', 'Don't worry girls, you're both beautiful, some man will want you,' and generally being approached by men in situations where it is clear that we are a couple. But it is the first time I have encountered such fury and hatred before, just through sitting there.

As we discussed it, it seemed as though the interchange was just as sexist as it was homophibic. The attitude was 'you are a woman, I have decided I like you, you should be grateful, and in being gay you have rejected the natural order of things that you should be available for me. Unless, of course, you are 'taken' by another man.' I just can't see any reason why there would have been so much ire toward complete strangers and their private lives unless it had been taken as a personal insult and rejection.

Is this a common part of homophobia- anger at women who are not attracted to men, and I have just been blind to it before? Or is my usual experience more common- that most homophobic people just don't 'get' it, especially when they can't categorise us into boxes they have decided they are comfortable with ie. a butch/femme relationship where they can write one of the women off as 'basically a man'? (Ugh).

I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that this is not a normal reaction- maybe because if people don't understand it because they don't have much experience of it they can learn or change or be accepting if someone they love is gay, but genuine hatred is so much harder to tackle. I'm just struggling to come to terms with the fact that my private life can cause so much bile in a person, when it has no impact on them whatsoever.

OP posts:
GarthsUncle · 12/03/2014 18:29

After I had turned away, he carried on- 'So I want to get to know you.' I told him I wasn't interested. He insisted 'I want to see if I like your personality.'

Aargh! "I want to see if I like your personality" - not even "I want to see how we get on" - and after you'd said verbally and with body language that you weren't interested.

What a cock.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 12/03/2014 18:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GarthsUncle · 12/03/2014 18:47

I like to keep things on a highly intellectual level, Buff Grin

TheUnforgiven · 12/03/2014 21:23

Broken- not at all, I think it was actually me who derailed my own thread :). And you're right, we shouldn't have to say that we are in a relationship or impliedly 'taken' as a reason to not be interested- not being interested should be good enough (and is good enough). I actually kicked myself afterwards for saying 'No, I'm with my fiancee' but I think I just panicked as he was so insistent. Also, she was right there, and it felt rude to not acknowledge her... Gah. I don't know why I'm feeling guilty for my reaction handling a situation that I didn't make! I bet he hasn't given it any thought at all today.

And Buffy- I don't think so. I've been here a few years under some different guises, but this is my first foray (apart from lurking) into FWR!

OP posts:
BrokenButNotFinished · 12/03/2014 22:19

You definitely shouldn't feel guilty. And in answer to your original question... I don't personally think this is about homophobia. I think men like this just don't actually like women very much.

whatdoesittake48 · 13/03/2014 07:41

This man would have made a foul comment to you, the minute he got it into his skull that you weren't interested. it was just "lucky" for him he had something to beat you with. otherwise it might have been that you looked stuck up anyway, that he didn't like your clothes, that you were probably stupid or you should lose some weight.

he would not have allowed himself to walk away from that situation without offering you something designed to make you humiliated and to make him look big. Your sexuality was just a handy tool to complete the picture how he saw it playing out.

TheUnforgiven · 13/03/2014 10:10

Garths- exactly. Even if I had been single, and hetero, and interested on first glance... where the fuck did he think this was going? How could I possibly agree to go on a date with a man who instructs me that he wants to find out if he likes me? And will presumably let me know whether I passed and won his approval at a later date. And is perfectly happy to date me without my willing participation; wearing me down will do just as well.

Even before the angry homophobic rant, this guy was a massive knob-jockey. Which is quite a relief, actually!

OP posts:
WoTmania · 13/03/2014 14:17

Sorry bit late back - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1270819-Some-men-really-hate-women-being-single-dont-they thread is here. Dovetails quite well with your next post.
IME many men do assume that if you're single you're 'fair game' and often become quite aggressive when ignored or outright rebuffed. Your original situation had an added layer of homophobia too Angry

Girlnumbersix · 13/03/2014 18:47

OP, what a horrible situation for you and your gf. So many men are just ridiculous when they talk to women. If I wasn't with my husband, I would never so much as LOOK at another man.

Girlnumbersix · 13/03/2014 18:50

^^^ What I mean is, my husband is the only man I want. If I didn't have him, I would stay determinedly single, as other men I meet I can't stand.

BrokenButNotFinished · 13/03/2014 20:45

I know what you mean, Girlnumbersix: I feel the same. And if my husband shuffles off this mortal coil well before me, I won't be in a hurry to fill the vacancy. He's a nice man. I can't believe it could possibly go as well a second time... Besides - I've done my share of frogs. Grin

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