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Original poster

Dads who think playing with dolls will turn their sons gay - advice needed

52 replies

Lottapianos · 27/02/2014 15:40

I work with young children and their parents. I have come across this kind of thinking before and the latest example was today when I explaining to a dad how to help his 2 year old son develop his pretend play skills by using dolls/teddies and a toy kitchen:

Dad: Dolls?????????? Shock
Me: You look horrified (smile)
Dad: Well I just never would have thought of giving him a doll
Me: Because he's a boy?
Dad: Well, yeah
Me: Little boys and girls both need the same opportunities to learn to pretend play etc
Dad: So it won't turn him a bit.........?
Me: Turn him a bit..........?
Dad: Oh well I guess he's only young yet....

So obviously in my head I'm saying FFS! What I really want to say to dad is 'oh you mean will it turn him gay? Oh I see! Well rest assured that there is nothing that will turn him gay - if your lovely boy is gay, then he's gay already!' But I had a feeling that would not have ended well.....

Almost the most depressing thing about this whole depressing episode is that this is a stay at home dad! I did point out that he's a man, and a dad, and that he takes care of his baby, and that there is nothing remotely weird about that, and so what could be wrong with his son pretending to do the same thing with a doll???? But you know when you just know that it's going to take a hell of a lot more to change someone's long held prejudices beliefs.......

I feel very strongly about challenging this nonsense but I also need to keep the parents on side. All thoughts and advice would be gratefully received

OP posts:
SwayingBranches · 28/02/2014 07:07

I think you did well linking it to caring and having a child. I doubt in that kind of situation it's going to be possible to outright challenge sexism and homophobia, but pointing out that men care for babies, push push chairs cook etc is a good way of opening their eyes.

AnythingNotEverything · 28/02/2014 07:10

God forbid you mustn't let him play with a doll he might grow up to be a father Shock

DontGiveAwayTheHomeworld · 28/02/2014 18:49

Can't let him play with a kitchen, he might grow up to...be a chef? Fend for himself? Not expect mummy to cook for him? (Looking forward to that last one!)

Can't let him play with dolls, he might grow up to be...a dad? A teacher? Or even just not totally hopeless when faced with small children?

Can't let him play with dresses, he might grow up to be...an actor? A costume/fashion designer? A drag queen?

All arguments I've had with DH. The simple fact is, I don't mind if he grows up to be any of those things. Some of them would be quite nice! I also couldn't give less of a toss if he's gay! I honestly don't understand why some people get so weird about these things...

ErrolTheDragon · 28/02/2014 19:01

Sorry link fail... here

Hotbot · 28/02/2014 19:51

I feel in love with my dh even more when he came home from work to ds wearing dds bright pink glitter fairy dress , high heel shoes ,picked him kissed him and said have you had a wonderful day ds you look great, what are you playing and can I join in !i nearly cried ,
Dh is a 6 ft 2 big bloke he did not suit the tiara,

AnotherRandomMale · 01/03/2014 15:01

I had a doll called Christopher Robin as a young boy (early 1980's).

I have been described as a gay friend as 'the most heterosexual man I know' because I am completely comfortable with other people's sexuality, and my own.

If the concern is that it will make the boy 'cissy' rather than gay, that's equally silly. I have played rugby, worked as a nightclub doorman, and like to ride motorbikes and race cars - not exactly a cissy. I also like cooking, dancing and clothes shopping too, and I moisturise!

I suspect boys subjected to intense pressure to conform to hetero-male stereotypes are going to feel confused about any conflicting instincts, and may even be MORE likely to identify as gay later if anything?

AnotherRandomMale · 01/03/2014 15:04

*BY a gay friend, not AS

doh!

ashesgirl · 01/03/2014 16:22

Show him this article

www.lettoysbetoys.org.uk/why-does-the-toy-industry-think-boys-dont-cook/

Tiredemma · 01/03/2014 16:24

What a load of bloody nonsense. My DS2 still plays with dolls and he is 10.

Birdo83 · 02/03/2014 11:32

Because Action Man toys aren't homoerotic at all:

www.fustar.info/wp-content/images/action-dan-naked.jpg
www.fustar.info/wp-content/images/Merged.small.jpg

Grin
VeggySausage · 02/03/2014 18:13

Man in the shop today while his tween (9-12?) year old age boy was look at figurines and his loser dad just comes over grunting.. "girly." (and it was so obvious that by "Girly" he meant gay. And he said it about everything the boy looked at. I saw some of what he was looking at btw.

First of all he is attempting to shame his son. Loudly. In public. secondly he is shaming him for trying to buy some weird magic elf, buxom girl on a horse who looked liked Laura croft and had a totally inappropriate not quite closed shirt. But he was being "girly" (gay) by trying to buy her and not, what? A bald chested doesn't come with any female companions action man? Yeah, fail at performing heterosexuality dad.

Dh turned to smurk because he knew I'd be sitting there fuming.

I suspect boys subjected to intense pressure to conform to hetero-male stereotypes are going to feel confused about any conflicting instincts, and may even be MORE likely to identify as gay later if anything?

I don't agree, I don't think human sexuality is so easily changeable, the only thing it will do is make him worry that if he is gay he won't be accepted and that if he isn't gay he won't understand why he isn't "normal" for not being a knuckle dragging neanderthal man.

TheVictorian · 02/03/2014 18:26

Suggest the child use either action man or go Joe, as although they are dolls they appear more manly and may make a possible better suggestion in case the guy though you may have been suggesting Barbie.

TheVictorian · 02/03/2014 18:27

G.I Joe

UptoapointLordCopper · 02/03/2014 19:14

"Dh turned to smurk because he knew I'd be sitting there fuming. "

This really gets me. Men rolling their eyes about gender stereotyping. FFS is it just a woman's problem then?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 02/03/2014 21:38

I read that as a smirk at the speaker rather than his DW, but I might be wrong.

ErrolTheDragon · 02/03/2014 21:46

Suggest the child use either action man or go Joe, as although they are dolls they appear more manly and may make a possible better suggestion in case the guy though you may have been suggesting Barbie.

The child in the OP was only 2, action man is recommended for 3 and up so not really appropriate. They probably come with unsuitable small parts.

KissesBreakingWave · 02/03/2014 22:01

Speaking as the owner of an action man, he had no parts at all.

And I'd just like the credit for leaving the wealth of 'come' jokes entirely alone.

UptoapointLordCopper · 02/03/2014 22:05

If it's as doctrine said I apologise!

I have had men rolling their eyes at me when I protest against gender stereotyping. It drives me mad.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 02/03/2014 23:38

Kisses, did Action man have pre-moulded Y fronts like Ken?

VeggySausage · 02/03/2014 23:52

In Dh's defense he thought the guy was being a twat (and in his words, the man clearly has some unaddressed issues), but he also sees the humour in watching me get super wound up and he said he knew if he turned around he would see me with a tongue bleeding from being bitten so hard.

So you were both right really. Grin

He also had the pleasure of me ranting for 40 mins on the way home. Grin

UptoapointLordCopper · 03/03/2014 07:33

I just wish more men would challenge this behaviour. I've seen one man doing this. I've questioned men why they don't do it, why they put up with this injustice. They have nothing to say in reply. I tell them if they don't speak up they are complicit. (That's how I win friends and influence people. Grin)

UptoapointLordCopper · 03/03/2014 07:37

Mind you, I'm not saying that I do that all the time, or that it has any effect on anything. Sad

VeggySausage · 03/03/2014 09:01

I tell them if they don't speak up they are complicit.

Dh isn't the type to get involved to be perfectly honest.. he stays out of things.. I usually am though and speak up. I'm just a bit fed up and heavily over due so wasn't in the mood. I was also slightly worried about embarrassing his little boy and at that point my children weren't paying the stupid man any attention..so I didn't really want them to suddenly look up an notice and hear a conversation about what is or isn't OK for girls and boys.

I think a lot of men are either worried about speaking up and having the piss taken out of them (which is a bit feeble tbh) or are more concerned about things escalating because they are men. If I had told the guy off I'd just be a a silly woman having a go, not worthy of a fight I suspect!

It is privilege in action being able to ignore that sort of thing though and I keep it in mind when I hear someone saying things that are small minded and racists/disablist/homophobic and do my best to speak to up

The only time I usually struggle to say anything is when the person is being "nice" but getting it wrong (gender stereotyping the children but in a friendly way), which I have had in the past and I never quite know how to broach it..

UptoapointLordCopper · 03/03/2014 10:19

I see what you mean veggy.

"Nice" people are difficult, aren't they? The road to hell is paved with good intention etc etc. But will think about this more later ...

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