Do you have a feminist son? Seems I do!

[FiscalCliffRocksThisTown]

Surprising, as I am a "quiet" feminist, I think, we don't discuss feminism at the dinner table, I don't think. Maybe it is implied though? It is not something i wither on about.

Yet DS (only9) has pulled up his male PE teacher yesterday on telling the boys they were "running like a bunch of girls". He said: "Excuse me, but that is actually an offensive comment to girls. It offends me too". Teacher not amused. I guess it was a bit cheeky of him to backchat.

He is very vocal about the lack of proper strong female heroes in movies (the only fault he can find with his beloved Star Wars).

Despite peer pressure he is friends with girls as well as boys, as he says: "the difference between boys and girls is not important, it is important if someone is your friend. Whether they are a girl or boy is not relevant.".

He feels very strongly about this. I wonder where it comes from, it seems to come from within him, rather than environment (us).

Anyone else have a "naturally feminist son"?

FiscalCliff Yes, my son is also a feminist. In very much the same way as yours is, I think. A sort of, 'well, duh, of course women are equal to men, what utter numpty would suggest they aren't?' style of thinking.

I think it's brilliant and has lead to us having some really interesting discussions about it all. He has ASD, and can be very literal in his thinking, so, while he might not get the subtleties, he does get the broad brush ideas.

Captain, this may be a stupid question. I have heard people say that people with ASD are more prone to have a commitment to fairness, and so they are less inclined to pick up stereotypes and unfair reasons for treating people unequally, do you think there's any truth to that, or is it just a stereotype itself?

I have never tried to imply feminism wasn't a subset of egalitarianism. I wonder if perhaps you're not understanding that all feminists are egalitarians, not all egalitarians are feminists.

Maybe you hold to a definition of feminism that actually doesn't distinguish feminism from egalitarianism, but my understanding and working assumption is that feminism is egalitarianism PLUS advocacy for women's rights.

If a person has only expressed a belief in the equality of genders, that's just basic egalitarianism. If that person goes on to express that belief AND the belief that e.g. women should therefore be able to vote/drive/etc, then that person is a feminist because they've added on the extra part about advocacy for women's rights.

I think the pathetic remark was fine, you were trying to use shaming and thought-terminating cliches, which I do think is pathetic. If you disagree, explain why, rather than resorting to buzzwords and stock phrases.

I think any reply to this is only going to summarise what I have already said. Yes, feminism is a subset of feminism, but geder equality is also a subset of feminism.

There are lots of different types of egalitarianism, some of which are mutually exclusive and some of which are compatible. There are some people on this board who advocate for Marxism and Feminism (which are both kinds of egalitarianism) and some who only advocate for Feminism (one part of egalitarianism). People can advocate for some parts of egalitarianism and disagree with others.

It is possible to advocate for gender equality without advocating for women's rights. A person could advocate equality between men and third gender people, without mentioning women at all. But if you are talking about men and women, then a person cannot both believe that men and women should be equal but disagree that women should be able to vote. It would be like saying you believed in racial equality but didn't agree that apartheid should end for black people.

If this is not what you are saying and you are saying that egalitarianism is the theory that genders should be equal and feminism is the practice of giving women rights, that isn't the case either. All forms of egalitarianism have a theory and practice, including feminism.

Sorry that first paragraph should finish ' feminism is a subset of egalitarianism and gender equality is also a subset of egalitarianism.' not what I have written above.

I like the discussion.

It had never occurred to me to see feminism as a part of egalitarianism. Like not seeng the woods for the trees .

I guess it means a lot of women and men are feminists by default. They might not even know.

I like that.

fiscal, there is an interesting link on here somewhere where the writer says that a feminist is someone who believes that men and women should be equal, and that they currently are not equal, that the weight of that disadvantage falls on women, and that they want to do something about it.

I agree with that. I agree with trade unionism in theory, but in practice I don't actively do anything about it, so I am not a trade unionist (another form of egalitarianism!) in practice.

And that is fine, just as it is fine not to be a feminist in practice if you doing something else worthwhile. But your son, who is actively learning about it and challenging an authority figure about women's rights, I would consider that feminism in practice for a 9 year old.

I think ( in part because of threads on here) that I showed dd a lot of media with women in it. Perhaps as a result, or perhaps it would have happened anyway, dd does not want to watch stuff that is mostly about men or boys ( so most media). Although she is a teenager, she does not see it as political. She just sees it as dull, boring and pointless. And I think that has to have an impact on self esteem, that the norm in what you view is not male dominated, and never has been.

I like that definition.