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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

School uniform rule - girls not allowed trousers

296 replies

Fisharefriendsnotfood · 10/01/2014 18:04

I'm wondering if I can call on the collective wisdom of you good people to help me construct my argument in the best way.

Dd (5) and yr 1 attends a local R.C primary school that I am more than happy with. She suffers from recurrent thrush and this year I noticed that when she wore tights under her pinafore it seemed to exasperate the problem. I checked the school prospectus for details because I have never seen a girl in trousers at the school and it states that girls must wear a pinafore or skirt as school uniform..

I then emailed the head and explained the issue and asked for clarification on the rules and she said that the last time the issue came before the chair of governors they decided not to introduce trousers as part of the girls uniform. She was very sympathetic and pleasant and said that if I got a doctors letter perhaps she.could allow it.

Now, there is no way dd would wear trousers if no one else was and I also feel that this would high light the issue / invite questions into something that is no one else's business.

So Grin if you are still with me, I want to get the issue raised again with the chair of governors because I cannot think of any valid reason in this day and age why girls should not wear trousers if the want to. I have to speak at a parent voice meeting and if I can muster enough support the issue will be on the agenda of the next governors meeting where I can present my argument.

Where to start? Can anyone offer pointers?

Sorry for the essay Smile

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Lio · 15/07/2014 14:59

And new education secretary is also minister for women. I look forward to backing any campaign that comes from this, either through MN or epetitions.

Misfitless · 18/07/2014 09:54

Have been away for a while, Fish but Shock at HT's reaction!

Don't give up. How does your daughter feel about this? You are teaching her such a good lesson by tackling this issue.

I've already asked mn for a campaign.

How is this legal? What about contacting the Children's Minister (if there still is one)?

I think if you've got the strength to keep going, this will get changed. The government will have to address it, as it is clearly gender discrimination!

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 18/07/2014 10:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Misfitless · 18/07/2014 11:04

I've just thought that Women's Hour on Radio 4 might be interested in this story.

Fish, count me in!

Buffy I think you're right, I think the time is right for this!

Fisharefriendsnotfood · 09/10/2014 10:04

Update

When I asked for the reasons why the board refused to change the rule I was told I could access the minutes like anyone else once they had been signed off in the autumn term. My dh went to school office this morning to request a copy and was told I had to view them in school, wasn't allowed a copy, and that they needed 10 days notice to remove any confidential info HmmHmm

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Indigui · 09/10/2014 14:13

I remember trousers for girls being a burning issue at my school, in about 1993.

TortoiseUpATreeAgain · 09/10/2014 14:41

The School Governance (Procedures) (England) Regulations 2003 state that "the governing body must make available for inspection, to any interested person, a copy of the agenda, signed minutes and reports or papers considered at the meeting as soon as is reasonably practical."

There's no definition of "as soon as is reasonably practicable" but most online discussion seems to suggest a couple of days -- I think you can certainly make representations that ten days is longer than "as soon as is reasonably practicable".

TortoiseUpATreeAgain · 09/10/2014 14:43

(Especially as they knew months ago that you were going to want to see them as soon as they'd been signed off -- you've got the correspondence to show that)

Fisharefriendsnotfood · 09/10/2014 19:41

I've spent the afternoon drafting a formal letter of complaint about the way the school, the board and the Head have handled the whole issue. Totally sick of it. Have also told them so fully intend to take legal advice, and generate as much support and publicise their sexist rules as much as possible

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NoUnauthorisedParking · 10/10/2014 06:18

Let us know if there is anything that we can do to support you. They are being utterly ridiculous.

Thank you for persevering. Good luck. Thanks

SconeRhymesWithGone · 10/10/2014 16:11

OP, I really admire your persistence. Thanks

Fisharefriendsnotfood · 10/10/2014 16:46

What can I say I hate being wronged. And they are wrong! It's going to be excruciating when I go to view the minutes as my letter complains all the office staff and the head in glorious detail

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TeWiSavesTheDay · 10/10/2014 20:24

We're behind you Fish!

AmberTheCat · 10/10/2014 22:11

Good for you! We're with you all the way.

zipzap · 10/10/2014 23:31

Missed this thread originally but just read through it now.

Can't believe how badly the school are treating you SadAngry

Although I'm a mum of boys, I absolutely think you're in the right and the school are completely in the wrong on this matter.

In addition to all the other great points that have already been raised, a couple of thoughts spring to mind...

If it's a Roman Catholic school then maybe ask them to show you exactly where in the bible (or indeed in any other papal decree or similar) it says that boys have to wear trousers and girls have to wear skirts.

Have you spoken to your local diocese officials? Do any of the other local RC schools allow girls to wear trousers? If there's one or more that do then they'll have problems arguing that there's any sort of traditional aspect to this.

And maybe point out that given all the problems that RC schools have had in the press in recent years, it seems strange that they are insisting on a uniform option for girls that ensures their underwear is shown whenever they sit cross legged, and regularly when playing in the playground assuming they still do handstands etc like we used to when young.

Ask if they are so concerned about being traditional etc that they are going to make all teachers wear skirts or pinafores and not allow them to wear trousers any more.

Ask them to provide proof of how boys are able to look smart wearing trousers but girls aren't able to look smart wearing the identical trousers (I'm assuming here that you can buy generic [colour] trousers from a local supermarket / m&S / John Lewis / etc and the girls trousers are pretty much identical other than having a pink label on instead of a blue one, same fabric, similar cut etc etc) and maybe say that you're worried about the mothers of boys choosing cheap trousers that will go all shiny so maybe they ought to make the boys wear skirts as they seem to have established that skirts are smart while trousers are not.

Remember that you're not bringing the school into disrepute by bringing this to everybody's attention - the head teacher and the governors are the ones that have done that by voting to refuse to allow trousers for girls.

Do a straw poll in the playground of the parents to see how many agree with you and how many don't. Note to see if there are any differences between parents of just girls, just boys or both boys and girls. See if they have been fobbing you off. Particularly get to the parents in the new reception year as there's a fresh batch of people who will hopefully be more enlightened and want the option of trousers for their dds. Plus they might have more energy to fight onwards if you've been tired by it all - not surprising after the dreadful way the school has been treating you in this matter.

Contact Everyday Sexism - this is just the sort of thing that they are campaigning against - the entrenched ideas of a female's place that puts them at a disadvantage.
www.everydaysexism.com/

Fisharefriendsnotfood · 11/10/2014 14:59

Super post zip thanks Smile

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Fisharefriendsnotfood · 26/11/2014 17:01

My official complaint is being discussed by the board tonight..

Suffering awful anxiety. Poor dd has been complaining of being cold at playtime all week

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DayLillie · 26/11/2014 17:08

Thinking of you. My dds went to a school where they banned skirts as they are impractical for a modern school.

Fisharefriendsnotfood · 26/11/2014 19:08

I wish I could just go to the meeting. It's the thoughts of them all discussing me and I won't know anything until they post me out a letter in a few days. And that will say as little as possible Hmm

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PuffinsAreFictitious · 26/11/2014 19:10

Hope they come to a reasonable conclusion for you and your dd (and everyone else's chilly dds)

GeekLove · 26/11/2014 19:11

Fish Can I tweet this thread. I find it unbelievable in this day and age that we are STILL discussing allowing girls to wear trousers. I remember this 20 years ago!

Fisharefriendsnotfood · 26/11/2014 19:29

Tweet away! Please

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kickassangel · 26/11/2014 19:30

I went to a church school back in the 1970s and we could wear trousers.

I hate school uniform with a passion. I'm a teacher and a parent and it causes more problems than it solves. It is utterly ridiculous. Still, I know that in the UK it won't disappear soon, so I'll save my breath on that. However, there is no reason at all to make girls wear skirts, and plenty if good ones to allow them to wear trousers. I think that anywhere that insists on a uniform (work or school) should just have a lust of standards and acceptable items, then people stick to that.

It is perfectly easy to do, can ensure that everyone looks smart enough and means that no one has to be made to stand out if for any reason they don't fit the norm.

DayLillie · 27/11/2014 12:22

At my local primary school, where they have always been able to wear trousers, pinafores, or whatever, the latest head has suddenly gone all old fashioned - they have to wear skirts, shirts (those horrible cheap transparent white things) clip on ties and Tesco jumpers that don't wash well and pull.

This is to prepare them for High School. The local High School is the one where they banned skirts. Hmm They also got rid of the shirt and ties at the same time and, whilst you are never going to get them to look like Eton College students for the photos, there is less opportunity to modify it; they do not come out of school with skirts turned up, shirts hanging out and ties adrift. It was decided that trousers, short sleeved top and sweatshirt was more suitable attire for the practicalities of the modern school day and more active lessons.

There seem to be moves afoot these days where people believe impractical clothing is equivalent to higher standards, much the same reasoning as giving homework to reception children in the 1990s - because private schools did it.

LoveAnchor · 15/06/2015 00:24

Fisharefriendsnotfood - have things progressed since November? Facing a similar challenge, so very interested in an update.

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