is there and 'official' feminist view on prostitution? and what is it?

[ohnoitshimagain]

hi, just signed up and want to get to the bottom of this issue

ok, I'm sure there's not an official view as such, but how about a consensus or just your own personal view on this topic

1. Should prostitution be fully legalised including brothels?

I believe it should in the modern day, because of freedom

and I'm talking here about female prostitutes and male clients

hope to hear some responses, thanks, btw I"m a man

[ohnoitshimagain]

^Mostly because consent within sex is necessary and lack of consent within the act sexual congress is called rape. Rape is a crime. Consent cannot be bought if it is to be considered not to be coerced. Coerced consent is no consent at all when considered ethically.^

Let's assume the sex-worker is NOT forced into it, in that she gives her consent because she wants the money and could easily say no.

That is not rape, it is a choice made by the woman to earn money.

Not the same thing at all.

[ohnoitshimagain]

^Are you studying currently, OP? What subjects?^

good to my word, I will now try to answer direct questions, so here is the first one:

Yes, I am studying for a BA in Social Sciences.

[ohnoitshimagain]

^Also - would like to have to have a stab at the questions posed to the OP upthread? (OP seems to have gone a bit shy).^

fire away, I am keen to answer now, seeing as the thread is up and running properly.

[ohnoitshimagain]

that's a good point and my thoughts exactly and the next questions are:

Surely men have a RIGHT to pay for sex if they can find a woman willing to accept the terms?

Why should their rights be denied just because of the OPINION of other women?

[ohnoitshimagain]

^When you are poor, there are two options- surviving (and being a prostitute) and not. I don't think many would consider those reasonable choices iyswim.^

But you fail to see the fact that women have MORE choice than men here. A poor man cannot become a heterosexual prostitute.

Did you ever stop to consider that?

[ohnoitshimagain]

^My instinct is that in a sense devoid of cultural associations, sex isn't different from other intimate services that can be paid for. But sex isn't devoid of cultural associations, in fact it's bound up in millennia of them. ^

IOW, manufactured and artificial values.

The irony here is that many of you talk about evolution, yet you won't allow it in this case.

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

OP might be interested in this Twitter account if it's real. Actually, lots of people might be interested, it's a shame he's in a different timezone.

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

PS,OP, have you never heard of "gay for pay"? Well,now you have.

[FloraFox]

It's not irony. Evolution has fuck all to do with prostitution. Take a biology class if you want to understand evolution.

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Sorry, I meant if the Op is real, not that my link to Kevin Wilson's twitterfed might be dubious. KW well worth following.

[Dervel]

OP I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt pending your response to this post. Take a step back, and try a little experiment for me. Try and imagine what it might be like growing up as a woman. Really try and empathise. Maybe take these following hooks to try to flesh out this thought experiment:

-The world is not setup with your gender as the "default", tv shows and movies, books and video games you grow up with almost always have a male character as the lead.

-A sport you may love to play, may well have a girls team at your school, but the adoration, status and kudos you get for winning regularly still doesn't even come close to the boys membership in a team for the same sport (plus better college scholarship opportunities).

-Almost every interaction you have with members of the opposite sex, is the constant worry that they may be a sexual predator, and it is somehow your responsibility and yours alone to stop the worst occurring. As you've seen your community consistently and repeatedly blame girls for the attacks they have suffered with questions like "what was she wearing?" Or "what did she expect going out drinking?".

-No matter how bright you are you can look forward to glass ceilings, pay gap disparity, men less capable than you being promoted before you in your dream profession.

If you really want to ace this exercise read some more threads on here, feel it out some more, or even actually ask some women in your own life what some of these experiences feel like. Then re-read your original post, and linger on that word you use. That word you use to justify your current belief. Freedom. Now ask yourself are we as men and as women equally free?

[ohnoitshimagain]

^It's not irony. Evolution has fuck all to do with prostitution. Take a biology class if you want to understand evolution.^

Sex has artificial values placed upon it - in the West this is largely due to the misogynistic religion known as Catholic Christianity, and we are still suffering from the hangover of that obtuse rationale.

This hangover still makes us associate sex with immorality, subconsciously at least, with much of the 'blame' being placed on the woman.

So now, in the 21st century our psychological evolution should make us forge clear of this mindset, and separate sex from culture and morality - ergo, a sexual free-for-all and total liberation is the real way forwards.

[ohnoitshimagain]

^OP I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt pending your response to this post. Take a step back, and try a little experiment for me. Try and imagine what it might be like growing up as a woman. Really try and empathise. Maybe take these following hooks to try to flesh out this thought experiment:^

All of your examples could just be slotted into the usual 'gender war' topic. Namely, they could easily be countered with a disparity from the other way around, and I'll not get into that, because this thread is about the legalisation of prostitution.

Ok, woman are overly sexualised in today's society, but guess what - if you don't want to work as a stripper, model, prostitute, hostess or whatever, then don't do it! Get a job doing something else or claim welfare.

Hardly rocket science.

[CheerfulYank]

"Men will always want sex" Well, excluding asexual men, I suppose that's true. Although it's more "humans will always want sex" really, I know I do and am not a man.

But for fuck's sake, why not be an adult about it and find someone you fancy who fancies you too and get to it? The sense of entitlement is baffling.

[CheerfulYank]

I think what you don't understand about being a woman (and really, no man really could) is the message pounded into your head from the time you're, what, ten years old? Younger these days? That the most important thing you can be is beautiful, hot, sexy, etc etc etc.

You may be clever, or funny, or athletic, or kind, but it's just not as important as being hot. It's everywhere, this message. Everywhere you turn, that who you ARE is not quite as important as what you look like.

[ohnoitshimagain]

^But for fuck's sake, why not be an adult about it and find someone you fancy who fancies you too and get to it? The sense of entitlement is baffling.^

That is easy to say, but how about for people who are unable to find a willing sexual partner? (perhaps because they are too unattractive, busy, or shy for example)

[ohnoitshimagain]

^You may be clever, or funny, or athletic, or kind, but it's just not as important as being hot. It's everywhere, this message. Everywhere you turn, that who you ARE is not quite as important as what you look like.^

Indeed.

But that does not justify banning prostitution.

[CheerfulYank]

Someone's too shy to meet someone for a drink and see if they want to go further but they're not too shy to rent a person's vagina?

I am not saying that does, or does not, justify banning prostitution. What I am saying is how ingrained the thinking of women/girls as objects is, even by themselves or other women/girls.

[CoteDAzur]

The difference is probably fear of rejection, which doesn't exist with a prostitute.

[TheDoctrineOfSanta]

OP

If the purpose of the sex is to earn money, what difference does it make if it is a man renting his orifices to a man or a woman renting hers?

Why does the sexual orientation of the person with the orifices matter?

[TheDoctrineOfSanta]

Again, society has rules about what canbe banned even if one person is willing to do something for money. It's not legal to work for less than the minimum wage, or to be paid for donating a kidney, or to be paid to be a surrogate (only expenses are allowed).

Do legal restrictions on these things mean the UK is not a capitalist society in your view? Given your area if study (thanks for answering) you must be aware of the evolution of laws like these, and like the ones on child labour etc.

[CoteDAzur]

The difference is that there isn't much demand for heterosexual male prostitutes - i.e. the vast majority of women don't want to rent a stranger's penis.

If the demand was there, I would bet money that male prostitutes would be abundant.

[TheDoctrineOfSanta]

Again, society has rules about what canbe banned even if one person is willing to do something for money. It's not legal to work for less than the minimum wage, or to be paid for donating a kidney, or to be paid to be a surrogate (only expenses are allowed).

Do legal restrictions on these things mean the UK is not a capitalist society in your view? Given your area if study (thanks for answering) you must be aware of the evolution of laws like these, and like the ones on child labour etc.

So it's nonsense to talk about someone's right to do something overriding someone else's opinion as a way of closing down debate; many changes in society happened because a group of people held an opinion, campaigned for a change in the law and convinced lawmakers the change was justified.

As an example, marital rape was only made illegal in England and Wales in 1991. Until then, men had a RIGHT to non-consensual sex with their wives, whatever the OPINION of their wives and of feminists. I'm glad that law changed not long before you were born and astonished it took so long. Aren't you?

[TheDoctrineOfSanta]

(Sorry, didn't realise I'd posted the first half)