is there and 'official' feminist view on prostitution? and what is it?

[ohnoitshimagain]

hi, just signed up and want to get to the bottom of this issue

ok, I'm sure there's not an official view as such, but how about a consensus or just your own personal view on this topic

1. Should prostitution be fully legalised including brothels?

I believe it should in the modern day, because of freedom

and I'm talking here about female prostitutes and male clients

hope to hear some responses, thanks, btw I"m a man

[ohnoitshimagain]

^Being 'free to choose' to either eat shit or die is not freedom, its a false choice. Meaningful 'freedom of choice' is dependant on the level of empowerment an individual possesses and can exercise in their choice.^

So why don't these women claim welfare instead then, or find a low paying job?

[EarthMither]

This subject has been rehashed many, many times on this board. I suggest you read the threads WhentheRed linked to above before persisting with the repeated questioning. Much less tedious for all concerned.

Or you could try having the courtesy to answer some of the questions which have been put to you by PPs.

Here's another: do you yourself pay prostituted women to have sex with you? Your posts sound like an exercise in self-justification and entitlement.

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

OP isn't here to listen to anyone's answers to his question. That much is obvious.

I'd be interested in his answers to some of the questions he's been asked though - he's conveniently ignored them so far - in favour of his own pontificating.

[AnyFuckerForAMincePie]

The day women listen to a (so called) 19yo callow youth pontificate on the position of women in a male-centric society is the day I hang up my monkey boots and turn up my toes permanently

[TheDoctrineOfSanta]

What other feminist issues concern you, OP?

[TheDoctrineOfSanta]

"Why should sex work be considered any different to burger flipping?"

Would you consider selling your orifices for money the same as working at mcdonalds?

[CaptChaosGlitteryBaubles]

why should sex work be considered any different from burger flipping?

Mostly because consent within sex is necessary and lack of consent within the act sexual congress is called rape. Rape is a crime. Consent cannot be bought if it is to be considered not to be coerced. Coerced consent is no consent at all when considered ethically.

Why do all men who come on to FWR to tell the silly feminists why they should allow men to buy them or rape them or whatever resort to the comparison between prostitution and working flipping burgers? Do they seriously believe that women's lives are akin to slabs of meat?

That was rhetorical btw, I know that the type of men who makes that comparison sees themselves as having a right to women's bodies, because they only see women as slabs of meat to be used. Just once I wish one of these men would come and actually use his brain to think with for a change.

[TheDoctrineOfSanta]

Completely free capitalism would, for example, lead to children being employed for various tasks because they are smaller and cheaper.

Society deems that unacceptable so it doesn't happen any more.

You don't have to be anti-capitalist to consider that capitalism needs some restrictions. I don't think there's a single western government that doesn't apply some - the minimum wage cited above is another example.

Are you studying currently, OP? What subjects?

[pokerface1]

"consent which is paid for is not true consent"

Shouldn't it be up to the individual selling sex to decide what "consent" is for herself instead of telling her she isn't able to give "consent" and what she is doing is wrong?

[pokerface1]

"Mostly because consent within sex is necessary and lack of consent within the act sexual congress is called rape. Rape is a crime. Consent cannot be bought if it is to be considered not to be coerced. Coerced consent is no consent at all when considered ethically."

Noone here is denying rape is a crime. Sex workers do have a right to not give consent and they do have a right to end the appointment with the client without giving a refund for remaining time. If the client continues to then force sex on her then that is rape.

Fortunately, the courts now acknowledge sex workers have a right to give/not give consent and that it is possible for them to be victims of rape. A man has recently been jailed for raping a sex worker.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-25404711

[pokerface1]

So why don't these women claim welfare instead then, or find a low paying job?

Escorts earn anything from £100 an hour up to several hundred pounds an hour. A lot more than what welfare pays.

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

How much would you sell your bodily orifices for, pokerface? Is £100 an hour enough for you?

If you were skint, would you rent out your arsehole for other men's sexual gratification, I wonder?

Also - would like to have to have a stab at the questions posed to the OP upthread? (OP seems to have gone a bit shy).

[pokerface1]

Escorts don't sell their "bodily orifices", they sell their time and companionship.

"Would you consider selling your orifices for money the same as working at mcdonalds?"

I don't know what burger-flippers earn at Mickey-Ds but they for a rough guess they would probably have to work about 20 hours to earn what a typical escort earns in 1 hour.

"why can a woman not choose to sell sexual favors, but CAN have her fetus terminated?"

Personally I believe abortion should be legal (if done within a set time-limit so the fetus is not too developed) and that a woman should not have to give a reason for having an abortion, but that's for another thread. I don't think it's relevant to sex work at all.

[CaptChaosGlitteryBaubles]

Shouldn't it be up to the individual selling sex to decide what "consent" is for herself instead of telling her she isn't able to give "consent" and what she is doing is wrong?

Not in a legal, moral or ethical sense, no. In any of those senses, unless the prostituted woman can honestly say that she would have have consented to the sexual act taking place with that particular man, without money having changed hands, then no, real, actual and legal consent cannot have taken place. HTH.

The other strawman that the pro lobby brings up is the concept of 'high-class' escorts. What percentage of prostituted women are these 'high-class' ones? How many of them have been raped? What percentage are 'less than high class'? Where do they work? What do they earn?

These men will clutch at any straw in order to retain their entitlement to women's bodies.

[CaptChaosGlitteryBaubles]

Escorts don't sell their "bodily orifices", they sell their time and companionship.

Do be serious! They sell their orifices to men who believe they are entitled to buy them. Or are you seriously suggesting that if they refused to have sex after the man has paid for their 'time and companionship' that that would be ok?

This bingo card is getting quite full now.

[grimbletart]

Escorts don't sell their "bodily orifices", they sell their time and companionship.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha etc. etc.

Can just hear it can't you: "Come in, sit down love and I'll make us a nice cup of tea and we can talk about your mum's arthritis and what's on this week at the local Odeon."

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Anyone else following the conversation on catounbound? Really interesting stuff. And not too much frothing.

[CoteDAzur]

To be more precise, prostitutes rent the use of their orifices (and breasts etc). If they were told sell certain body parts, the buyer would presumably take them with him.

[SolidGoldBrass]

While I think the OP is both clueless and goading, there are one or two points worth addressing:

'Choice' for people who are poor, in the current climate of austerity/war on the poor etc. There are a lot of jobs which are poorly paid/dangerous/make use of trafficked people/may conflict with some individuals' ethics. I think it's unhelpful to single out and stigmatize sex work so much more than (eg) casual agricultural or construction work. or debt collecting for payday loan companies.

'buying' women. A person who pays for sexual acts to be performed by another is buying the sex worker's time and services. After the services have been performed and paid for, the participants in the transaction go their separate ways with no obligation on either side. Unlike a lot of low-paying corporations, a sex worker's clients have (and expect) no claim on what the sex worker does outside of the paid-for time. Sex workers' clients do not reserve the right to police their social media, forbid them to unionize, insist on drink or drugs tests or order them to attend church services or lose their jobs.

'Choosing sex work harms other women: There is a feminist viewpoint that only women are constantly told to put themselves last and consider Everyone Else In The Entire World before their own needs. Women are not a homogenous group. A woman choosing to embrace or reject sex work is no more to blame for what happens to other women who choose differently than a woman who chooses to embrace or reject motherhood, or employment, or religion, or body modification, or marriage.