Is men pooing a feminist issue?

[coldwinter]

Just been on another thread elsewhere, where women are complaining about the amount of time their DP's take to poo in the toilet. Strangely enough, for some it always seems to happen when things are hectic with the kids .

So I think this is a feminist issue. After all, mums can't just bugger off to have a 30 or 45 minute poo leaving young children unattended outside. But some fathers routinely do this, leaving their DP's to cope alone with the kids.

[comingalongnicely]

Some of the replies are quite humorous, others raise some of the points raised on here - i.e. why do some women feel that they have to formally handover care of the kids to the partner rather than just shut the door on them for 15 minutes.

A fairly good mix of sexes in the comments too, so not just men.

I must admit, when I read the title of this thread I thought it was going to be a jokey one, a little fazed to find it was serious....

[comingalongnicely]

Definitely! Same with ours when they were young. But I honestly can't comprehend why people aren't just saying "just popping out, back in half an hour" more. Surely if you do that repeatedly the OH will start to appreciate what looking after the DCs involves, and even if they don't - at least people would get a break & some "me" time...

[YoniBottsBumgina]

Because some DHs wouldn't.

I honestly don't think it's as simple as that women are afraid to leave their DC or the chestnut that she's a control freak and never lets him do anything or criticises him when he does. Bullshit. In my experience it's extremely subtle but the actual difference is massive when you feel that the responsibility is both of yours rather than just yours.

It doesn't even mean he's a particularly sexist bloke, it's just ingrained. Ever seen those surveys where men are perceived to do more housework even when they do less? It's the same kind of conditioning which allows us not to see this in action.

[Boosterseattheballcleaner]

It doesn't even mean he's a particularly sexist bloke, it's just ingrained

Thats nailed it for me, DH is very hands on and always has been but the amount of shit we get from family about "how much he does" like he should get a bloody medal for doing 50% of the work.

And don't get me started on "for a stepdad......"
Blood boils.

[comingalongnicely]

OK, so they don't appreciate what it involves, that doesn't mean he can't be left with the kids FFS - if he can't then there are obviously deeper issues than just shirking responsibility.

If he gets left with the kids often enough that'll become ingrained too.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

You're completely missing my point. It's not about men not knowing what to do - often when dads like this are alone with the DC they are perfectly capable of looking after them, it's just they don't when their female partner is around, because they know she will do it. She picks up on this and subconsciously feels more responsible as well, hence feeling less able to just check out for a while.

It's very very subtle, they probably don't even realise they're doing it. It's very similar to the instinct where you would pick up a friend's baby who was crying or crawling off if they were busy, or you were much closer, but if they are an equal distance from the baby than you are, or obviously not busy, then you wouldn't, because you would assume that they are about to. Because in reality your friend's baby isn't your responsibility. Some fathers unconsciously do this with their own DC.

[scallopsrgreat]

Agree YoniBotts. And a good analogy there.

Instead of asking why women ask their partners to look after the children while they go and do something, the question should perhaps be why do men feel its OK to assume their partner will look after the children whilst they go and do something or why don't they feel the need to ask them?

Because there is a certain sense of entitlement that goes hand in hand with those assumptions that your partner will pick up the slack whilst you go and do your stuff.

[PenguinsDontEatPancakes]

I agree with Yoni's analogy and think it is a really good one.

To change it slightly. If my friend came round to my house with her baby, I would assume she was still responsible for changing her baby's nappy. I wouldn't think about how long it had been since he was changed or whatever. On the other hand, if my friend left her baby with me to pop to the shops, I'd be keeping an eye on that.

In many families, that's how the father is operating. The mother knows that the father isn't keeping an eye on when the baby was last changed. Because he doesn't see it as his job when she is around. Therefore she has to verbally 'clock off' so that he will deal with that job and start paying attention. But every time she does 'clock off' she reinforces the idea that the default responsibility is hers and he is only responsible for these things if he has been given a 'handover'. So actually just going out and leaving them more doesn't necessarily change anything. What is actually takes is (along with a willing partner who wants to change!) either:

a) a very frank conversation; or
b) for the woman to repeatedly clock off without notice and still being around, until the dad is one that notices that the baby needs changing or feeding or whatever.

a) is hard for many women because it is rocking the boat in a big way, along with needing recognition of the issue in the first place. b) is mighty risky because, when something isn't your job, you notice very late.

[DanglingChillis]

I like the friend analogy but I think in an even relationship (is there truly such a thing?) you both sometimes do the 'I'll leave it to the other parent' thing. DH and I both work part time so both have days at home alone with the kids. Both of us think days alone with the kids are in some ways easier than family days because when we are all together we both assume more will get done because the other one is around and so do slightly less ourselves and it ends up less gets done than if we were each alone and we get annoyed. We're both taking the chance to absence ourselves.

I haven't noticed DH taking a particularly long time doing a poo but he has told me men can't pee and poo at the same time. That might add a few seconds to their toilet visit I suppose.

[jasminerose]

Its no different to women going for very long baths, hair drying, straigtening hair, face masks etc

[BasilBabyEater]

That's interesting, I've just remembered that when I was with XP, he was a SAHP and yet when I was around, he sort of tuned out of looking after DS and I was suddenly the default parent.

Had never really clocked that till now.

Just something to add to the fight or flight nonsense - everyone always ignores the other major response to stress, which is freeze. Fight or flight is so accepted and "known" to be "fact" and yet freeze is a response which is often the only one available to mammals (and humans) in times of stress, danger etc. and probably just as common as either of the other two.

I now have visions of men freezing in the kitchen because it's time to put the pasta in the pot.

[BasilBabyEater]

I've also just realised that both my kids do this. DS and DD will be getting on with getting ready for school at 7.20AM or whatever, I'll get up and put the kettle on and suddenly they will stop doing stuff for themselves. If I stayed in bed, they would get themselves ready and go to school, but as soon as I get up and start doing stuff, they'll stop doing their breakfast, packing their lunches etc.

Hmm. Must do something about that.

[coldwinter]

I remember reading a mother with a young baby talking about how both her and her DP worked full time. The baby was waking up frequently every night but only the mother was getting up to comffort/feed the baby, etc. She complained about this to her DP, but he just said he slept deeply and didn't hear their baby crying.

After a bit of this, the mother finally had had enough and confronted her DP. She said his excuse of sleeping deeply was not good enough. He had to wake up and take his turn with their baby. The next night the DP did wake up when the baby cried.

He said he realised that he knew he could sleep deeply, because she would hear the baby and get up for her. But when he was forced to take equal responsibility, he did wake up, because he knew he had to.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

Of course Dangling. And if you're both doing it then it's fine. Hell, DP and I always seem to be napping or going out or generally doing something else, and it's not an issue. It's when one parent is doing it literally all the time that it becomes a strain on the other.

YY Basil my DS is like that too. "I can't put my own shoes on!" You manage at school perfectly fine... I've just realised I always stop tidying/cleaning when DP arrives home too (he does most of the housework, so I probably subconsciously see it as his job)

That's a really interesting example coldwinter. I remember two fairly recent threads as well which illustrate the same thing - I'll try not to give too many details. In one a poster was saying that even if she left her DP in charge and went for a nap, she couldn't relax because she could hear the DC. And the other was where a poster was upset because she had fainted when her DC was injured. It turned out that in the past she'd dealt with stressful and/or gory situations just fine, but on this occasion she was not the only responsible adult present, her DH was there.

[Sausageeggbacon]

Have to admit was disappointed this died especially as at least a couple of male orientated sites have picked up on this. DS1 is now using the phrase "going to the Responsibility Avoidance Chamber" which has been used a bit on REDDIT

[coldwinter]

Really? Some male orientated sites have picked up on this? What do they make of it?

:) At DS1

[SinisterSal]

I dread to think coldwinter!

[TheArticFunky]

Why do people allow their partners to get away with shirking their responsibilities?

Dh doesn't do long poos but when he wants a break he urgently needs to wash the car . My escape is to check my emails.

[coldwinter]

It is fine each partner taking breaks. But many fathers do seem to use excuses to avoid childcare, particularly at stressful points of the day.

I hate when going on holiday, waiting in airports and seeing the amount of fathers who just leave mothers to get on with caring for, and entertaining their children. There are always exceptions, but it is actually fairly common to see fathers leaving it to mothers.

[AngelinaCongleton]

Yip I think it probably is a feminist issue. I'm not sympathetic to the 45 minute shite-a-thon. My dh shites on his own time now, but probably thinks I'm a cow for making an issue of it.

[LongDeadMotherofHorrors]

Men pooing. Women pooing. It is a biological issue. Period.

[Custardo]

"After all, mums can't just bugger off to have a 30 or 45 minute poo leaving young children unattended outside" well no, becuase dh would look after the kids whilst i had a shit.

i would like to come out firml and say - ladies, i read on the toilet. If he takes 45 mins - then i will too

this is only a feminist issue in so far as you go running to pick up the pieces and then complain about not having 5 mins for a shit.

[SinisterSal]

It's probably the same mindset that you see in people who do their poos in work. there's the extra satisfaction of hahah I'm being paid for this but really I'm taking a shit.

Or so I have heard

[Custardo]

i don't understand, if you shit at work you are being paid for it ( what am i missing?)