Book recs/opinions: society telling women that the way they look should relate to them being believed?

[LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti]

I'm just trying to work through this idea I have. At a conference a couple of years ago, Gail Dines did a talk about how all sorts of media send messages to women (and men) telling us that the way a woman looks is a good indicator of whether or not we should trust her.

Obviously we all know the rape-myth stuff: oh, that woman is wearing a short skirt, she must be up for it, etc. But there are also stereotypes like that blonde women are less credible as serious people, and so on.

Do you think these stereotypes still have a big effect on how people see women? And how do you think these stereotypes get communicated to us?

The reason I'm interested is that I was thinking about films like 'Legally Blonde', which seem to me to be pretending they're undermining the whole 'blonde and ditzy woman' stereotype - but they actually annoy the fuck out of me because they push a whole load of antifeminist stereotypes at the same time.

I don't know what feminist scholarship I could read on this issue (I've read Beauty and Misogyny but it doesn't quite cover it). You see, I was trying to think about how we all learn to interpret these cultural messages and how it affects our attitudes to our own looks, when often those looks are going to be used to measure how credible we are in different ways.

What do you think?

I suspect it is true with women, as it is with men.

To do with commanding attention (in a positive way in our society) and automatic respect.

I know plenty of men who are tall and well built and who look good in a suit who sort of get automatic respect because of how they look. And they have to actively go wrong to lose respect - the starting assumption is they are good at what they do.

Whereas in the same environment someone like me, when I was younger and slimmer - so female, not very tall, blonde, not unattractive etc - I had to earn it. Even now, I got mistaken for a PA type person who was there to minute a meeting, just a couple of months back. Woman with pad = secretary. I was a bit confused as to why when we went round the table doing intros everyone looked pointedly at me. I didn't twig what they were thinking until the introductions were halfway around the table. They were expecting me to write it all down! So I continued nodding and smiling and all the men looked more and more confused until I introduced myself, clearly not as a PA. Was kind of funny but kind of weird.

Back to point, yes I feel that eg tall brunette women are taken more seriously on initial impression than a smaller woman with blonde hair / big boobs / etc. It's an "alpha" thing, so they like to say. I think it's good old fashioned sexism & stereotyping.

I think that taller people get noticed in a positive way.

As a small blonde woman I always got noticed but not in a way that was positive from a "getting on at work" POV.

It's maybe this thing about "professional" = tall neat non bearded etc man (think presidents of USA). Actually the presidents of the USA thing is exactly right. they've never had a bald one (or something).

The have never had a woman, which is more irritating.

I think I read somewhere (unless I imagined it) that of two presidential candidates in the US, it was the taller one that usually won.

Confession: in the 80s - that decade of power dressing - at business meetings I always wore high heels that put me on eye level with the blokes - oh, and power shouldered suits. And I was brunette then. It seemed to help .

Oh, and at the risk of stereotyping horribly it does seem to be small men that have a Napoleon complex in my personal experience - maybe have to throw their weight around because they feel inferior to tall men?So men have problems of perception too.

NiceTabard I can almost picture the meeting don't they say something about assumptions make a fool of you, they all must have felt very silly.

I wear heels and I'm still not on eye height with most people

Interestingly short men seem quite common where I work. But they are always super confident.

Grimbletart, I have noticed this with some small men also. Tis a generalisation, but I meet lots of people for work and IMHO the small ones tend to be the angriest.

I have given up NiceTabard I would need stilts.

Although being short has its benefits, can't think of any right now but I'm sure there are some

DH talks about "small man syndrome" - he says it's always the little ones to watch out for in boozy pub situations as they have something to prove.

In my work braininess is sought after but to really get on you need confidence / charisma etc. So I work with quite a lot of very relaxed short men in immaculate suitage.

Actually my current job / company is great so I'm going to shut up now

But in the past not so good, not so good at all.

Yes indeedy.

And actually being older and fatter and married and a parent seems to have toned down the sexist response to me. Which is good

It may be a generalisation but......DPs father is a gnome, he is actually shorter than me, he doesn't like me and he is a very angry man.

I am working on a project at the mo, where apart from the sales guy, everyone else is female. Buyer, project manager, senior it architect, engineer, programmer on the supplier side. It is so lovely, and sadly unusual.

Too tired to make this cohesive but there was a progranmme on BBC4 last night something like The Representations of Witches in Art History. Was interesting. Made me think of this thread. Might be worth a look. Good night.

Aha

But the people who say "OOH I'm having a blonde moment" or similar IME aren't natural blondes. Or, aren't blonde at all

And I sit there gnashing my fucking teeth like this [grrrrrrrrr]

My colleague dyes her dark brown hair blonde in a t-section stylie. She looks nice, as she has easy-tan skin and eyebrows and eyelashes you can actually see what with being dark and she puts on this ditzy voice and says to the men "ooh sorry I'm being a bit blonde".

I have a fucking physics degree.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Seriously it drives me up the wall. I HATE blonde jokes. So much.

Sorry for ranting

Also poor blonde me not super top on oppression scale. But still. I suspect it played a part in the (apparently) fairly high amount of street harassment / random work shit that I have encountered. So.

No that would drive me bonkers! I work in a highly technical environment. The reason I might have to ask "stupid" questions is because I am not technical, not because I am blonde and female. Most people seem to get it though. I have suffered little sexism in Belgium vs UK.

I'm not blonde NT and I believe I have experienced less sexism as a consequence. I've also had men approach me and allude to their intentions being purer, them being more sophisticated etc because they picked me out rather than blonde friends I've been with. It is all ridiculous.

Just watching QT

Of course we are socialised / (instinctive (?) to sort of pay more attention to deeper (male) voices. So that's another hurdle.

I am sure accents come into play as well. But certainly deeper seems to = more commanding for all but the most charismatic / accomplished people.

Freya - wow!

It seems (in my not huge experience) that blondeness seems to be quite prevalent in porn / glamour type stuff. That may well have an impact on how blonde women are perceived by men, especially young women / teens who have other attributes shared with that "style".

Yeah no men have ever approached me and said their intentions were pure!

I kind of got the other end of the scale of approachness.

Fun

Are we kind of circling around blondeness as being the extreme form of femininity. Blondes are seen as requiring more care, attention and protection but are also more cast in the role of person who gets victimised - missing white woman syndrome sort of thing? I don't know.

Also over-represented in western esp US porn and glamour type stuff / page 3.

I guess maybe it's the juxtaposition of "innocence" as signalled by the childlike hair with adult sexuality that gets people going with that.

IME blondes are seen as thick / sex objects / asking for unwanted attention rather than needing to be cared for.

Missing white woman syndrome = appalling. But that is skin, not hair. If a missing woman / girl looks like a porn-style blonde then I suspect the missing white woman thing might back up a bit. We have US TV to thank for a lot of this, I think. A lot of it is tied up in class / wealth / background and so on as well. The old rape myths / virgin.whore.

Sorry am on stream of consciousness here!