not a job? what??

[smedrock]

how to you reply when someone tells you being a mum isnt a real job or asks you when you're going back to work?

snappy replies needed!

OP, you seem to be hung up on the word job being the only way to describe a worthwhile and meaningful occupation.

People who tell you it is not a job are trying to wind you up or put you down. We think of our jobs as our role/the way we earn our money/ our responsibilities/ what we do all day. In that sense being a stay at home parent is definitely a job (although you are not thechnically "paid" by someone, you are allowing the other parent, even if you are not still together, to earn money without having to pay for childcare so you should be sharing that money as your "income.")

I also work in paid employment outside the home and, therefore, like many people, have two jobs.

It is a role, not a job.

I like Boffin's take on it.

Is this not just semantics? People seem to attach different meanings to the word 'job'. I personally don't see a 'job' as being paid employment (e.g. Jobs round the house, voluntary positions). Caring for young children is a job (time, effort) or else why would we have to pay someone to do it? As long as you're happy with your decision fuck 'em!

The one that makes me laugh is that it's a job if you get paid to do it as a childcare worker but otherwise...it is nothing. So generations of women who had to leave work when married to raise kids were doing... nothing.
The idea a feminist would subscribe to that sort of view is beyond me.

The issue is that people are denigrating your everyday activity as a mother at home with young children as 'nothing'. It's not nothing because it's unpaid. It is rude and dismissive and says a lot about the value placed on childcare in our society.

I had pnd with dc2. I wanted to go back to work in May but was signed off... because I needed more rest. Where I was going to get rest with a 3 and 1 year old at home was anyone's guess. Then the Occ Health Physician said I didn't need a graded return because I was 'only working three days' and had the other two days a week to 'recover'. Again, this notion I would be reclining in silence on the daybed recuperating instead of being clambered all over by two boisterous toddlers and catering to their needs. My favourite example of this is a friend whose husband was very stressed after the birth of their child and ended up in A and E with a panic attack. The doctor took him in for two nights for a 'rest' (not NHS!) leaving his wife at home with a two day old newborn and a toddler having just had a c-section.

Work, job, occupation etc. Whatever it is it isn't sitting around being bone idle and the question implies it is of no value, let's face it. The reality is for many families it just doesn't work to have two adults in paid employment for a myriad of reasons and people make their own choices. Why others have to make laden comments is beyond me.

Personally I don't work full-time and will have a period of being an SAHM I think after the birth of dc3. My reasons are personal. My mother was and is a career woman and she SUCKED at juggling. Her head was and is always in work and she is really barely emotionally present at home at all. My father was better at managing both roles when I was young but the marriage broke up and my mother really didn't cope with being a mother at all. She was hardly ever home, there was rarely food in the house, we were alone constantly and when home all she talked about was work, work, work. She became very high-flying in her job but at great personal cost in her relationships. We have started to talk this through and she has so many regrets.

This is not how many career women live their life but it was my template for mothering and I recognise a certain tendency to workaholism in myself... so for me personally I really need additional time at home with the children as young children to live my whole life as I want to and to have balance.

It's so easy to generalise and get caught in theoretical categorisation of what women choose but I suspect many people have reasons beyond the obvious for their choices and the sneering talk of real jobs is just unnecessary. I would just shrug and smile and enter into no debate on it, ever. Your life, your decision.

Why are there suddenly loads of threads not in AIBU pitching SAHM v WOHM?

Just get on with it. Who gives a toss how some arse catagorises your daily activities?

Why are you assuming that someone who doesn't believe that being a mother should be described as a job would also think that being a SAHP is 'nothing'? I found being at home when my two were little incredibly hard work, which is why I went back to my job very quickly. I was still a mother though, and didn't appreciate that being questioned by my anti-natal friends who had chosen to stay at home and looked on me very pityingly. But then I didn't look down on their choices, so of course it was irritating (I made some new friends more similar to me, so not really a big deal).

Parenting your own children is a labour of love, looking after someone else's child is a job. The activities might be the same but the reason why you do, rewards associated etc. are very different.

Nooka if someone asks someone when they are going to get a real job there is an implied value judgement there given how work is viewed in our society. Similarly if someone says that paid childcare = 'someone else is raising your children' that is an implied value judgement. Both are anti-feminist.

Why so much concern about the use of the word 'job', anyway? I think it is a strawman and the issue is the rudeness of the implied judgement not the use of the word. My grandmother used to call poos 'jobs'. I doubt anyone would seriously engage on how crapping might be hard work sometimes but it is not a job. The feminist issue isn't the use of the word it's the resistance and irritation about the use of the word. A rose by any other name....

I'm a childminder, and until I went on maternity leave I was looking after 2 toddlers at home all day. One was my own son. They did the same activities, got the same amount of attention and cuddles, created the same amount of cooking, tidying and washing up etc. But one was my "job"and the other one wasn't.

I find the whole sahm vs wohm argument bizarre really. Surely our grandmothers fought for women's rights so that we can have CHOICE not so that we get backed into another corner full of society's culturally determined expectations.

I am basically a sahm because I want to be, and because DH and I both feel that is the best thing for our family. I have not inherited wealth!!! I don't give a stuff about having a career, and I trust DH to provide for us financially in the same way he trusts me to take care of the kids and manage the (very tight) household budget. If having a career was important to me, I would work outside of the home and find good quality childcare. But I love working with children and I prefer to be with my own children rather than leave them with somebody else.

To me, feminism does not mean that I have to let somebody else look after my kids while I go and work in a call centre. It means that what I do at home should be valued, and that if I was in employment I should get the same pay and benefits as men doing the same work. Also that if it was DH at home with the kids all day, he would not be looked down on for doing "women's work" - looking after children in a home environment is an important job and should be valued by society.

So there!

OP, I have never found a good snappy answer to the "when are you going back to work?" question. I also loathe being told that I am "lucky" to be able to stay at home... Some of the people who tell me they couldn't afford not to work go on foreign holidays and have two cars etc. We are always skint, but have made a carefully thought through and perfectly valid lifestyle choice.

I work part time. I say I go to work 'for a rest'. This is actually the truth. If someone was to say that sahm/d was not a 'real job' I would smile and say "well, being on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week without a break for 3 years...Yes. I guess it would create problems classifying full time parenthood as a 'real job' as it would contravene the European Working Time Directive and also National Minimum Wage regulations. But there you go." and flounce off.

And when are you going back to work? That's not such a bad question in my opinion...as there is some sort of assumption that everyone goes back to paid employment at some point whether this is when kids are at school etc unless they are supported financially by someone else. Nothing wrong with being honest?

It's very rude for someone to tell a full time parent that parenting isn't a real job. It's not a job in the economic sense but you are working all the same. If someone makes this comment in future I would suggest that you tell them that they are ill-mannered we let people get away with far too much.

I don't see a problem with asking a full-time parent when they are intending to return to work. Most of the time people are just making conversation or interested in your situation. I find it really interesting that lots of women have complete career changes after having children or start their own businesses. Getting off the career ladder for a while can be refreshing and allows one the opportunity to assess their options. When I ask this question it's because I have a genuine interest in the world of work.

Oh yes I've already said that the original question as posed to the OP was very snippy. I'd not say anything like that unless I felt very provoked, and even then I don't think it's something I'd say.

However I still don't think that being a parent is a job. There are of course many tasks/jobs involved with looking after children, and the work that goes with having small children is in no way to be dismissed. I suppose I'd just think it a bit odd if in response to being asked a 'when are you going back to work' type question someone said 'being a mum is my job now' or something along those lines.

Why though? It just seems to be so loaded and that to me is because it's political. I am Irish. I call a cupboard a press. No one has ever made a thing of it. People have a discomfort around describing motherhood as a job that is really about the sociocultural value of both being a mother and having a job. You see this crazy extrapolating where if I say I wish my child was at home with me instead of at nursery I am implying anyone who is happier at work or loves their child toddling off into nursery is less of a woman/mother/decent human being than I am. Manipulate the variables and you can find this going on in relation to almost all decisions mothers routinely make. It is the politics not the semantics that cause the bristling.

It's not a job. Neither is doing my ironing, although if I pay someone to do it, it could be their job.

It might be hard work, but that is not the same thing.

Op, I would just simply smile and say "But my unpaid labour is worth thousands and I'm my own boss" or you could say "I don't need a job, I have one"

I agree with much of what 9while5 has said. In terms of semantics, a job seems to mean any labour for which you are paid a wage. Earning a wage is a fairly recent phenomena but human beings have always been engaged in economic activity they have't always been employed and paid a wage. Women have always been engaged in economic labour whether that be weaving, gathering, growing or potting, crafting or childcare. All of these activities are about meeting material and social needs. What is different is that women now work increasingly outside of the home and we now place a value upon the wage because the wage is what is needed to meet most of the other material/social needs. It seems that motherhood is deemed to have little value because it isn't recognised as being of economic value. In fact nothing that is considered "feminine" labour has much social value even when it is paid. In a man made world where value is attached to male culture, male attitudes, male ambitions and behaviour I guess we had a choice, either stand firm and demand equality or adopt the idea that working for wages or working to exchange commodities has more status. I refuse to accept a situation where my value will be measured on a man-made ruler. I also don't see anything particularly of value or status to being a wage slave, exploited for surplus value by someone who controls every minute of my day. But then I have been lucky, not just to afford to stay at home but to have a partner who appreciates how much my time and effort is worth.

A bit baffled by some of the replies so far. I think Working9while5 has hit the nail on the head.

It may or may not be a job depending on your definition.

Your saying "wow. i thought i was posting to a feminist crowd" suggests that you will only accept one definition. The people saying "it's not a job" have a different definition.

There is no rule that says that feminists must think that looking after children is " a job".

You can't have a conversation about this unless you accept that people define the word differently, and then talk about being a stay-at-home parent is and is not using other words.

Whether it is technically a job or not, it needs doing by someone.

I am flummoxed at some of these replies - And also agree with Working9.

As to what to say when someone asks 'When are you going back to work?' - Glance meaningfully at your children, give a wry laugh and say 'In about 30 seconds.'

In my context I'm happy to use "job" for "something I do". Maybe it's a Scottish/Glaswegian use of the word, but our children do "jobs" around he house, my dh will say he has lots of "jobs" to do at work today, I've always got a list of "jobs" I need to do round he house etc.

People will usually ask "what do you do?" or "where do you work?" Job seems too little a word to encompass "work" to me.

So to me, being a sahm can be a job, but it's not all I work at, iyswim.

It seems to stem from the idea that SAHMs laze around all day in their pyjamas, eating chocolate and watching daytime tv. After all, how hard can it be to stay at home instead of going to work?

"What do you do all day?" DH asked me. I pointed out the clean house, the washing machine running, dishes washed and ready to put away. The clean, well fed, happy toddler running around. "It's exactly the same as when I left for work" he says. "Precisely" says I. "What I do all day is keep it this way." Then I buggered of for a weeks holiday and left him to it. He never questioned how hard I work again!

Calling it a job is a matter of semantics. It doesn't matter what we call it, what matters is it being treated as equal to paid work.

It is not employment or a job; it is not contracted - unless you are a Foster carer.

It is a responsibility (and then you are either a parent, or a Guardian)

Its not a job though is it - its more important that that.