This got me thinking

[GetStuffezd]

I was in a pub the other night and there was a group of youngish women in their early twenties and one gay chap who was extremely camp and seemed to be "acting the part" if you get me. He was very much centre of attention. At one point he said to one of the women, "and you can move that useless flap of leather you call a cunt and get us a drink." Cue hilarity from group.

I honestly feel like I've aged somewhere along the line because I felt a bit cats-bummy, which I NEVER do!

It just got me thinking. This guy could only have got away with such a comment because of the persona he presents. A man who came across as more "macho" would have been slaughtered for it! Also, the reaction of the women made me think. Again, maybe I'm getting old but I just wouldn't find that kind of comment funny any more. Maybe I'm over thinking, maybe it's not even a gender issue, but it got me thinking. Please don't think I'm in any way homophobic, I'm 100% for everyone being able to identify as they choose. I must admit though, that loud people acting in a camp way do grate on me.
Any thoughts?

I'm pretty sure that I made it clear that it isn't acceptable to make racist or sexist comments. But there is no need to criticise the non-racist or non-homophobic elements of their culture that they are enjoying in order to point out that their sexism and racism is unacceptable.

You have to treat people equally even when they have done something wrong. The man should be criticised for making a sexist comment, not for 'acting a part' or being too camp. It isn't suddenly okay to criticise somebody for participating in gay culture just because they made a sexist comment. The bit he should be criticised for is the comment.

And nobody said that you were a homophobic person. What has been said is that you sound homophobic, just as he sounded like a misogynist (although his remarks were much, much worse).

I've found this helpful for understanding the distinction:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Ti-gkJiXc

Oh please! Who wouldn't criticise an element of someone's behaviour they found annoying?!

You have to treat people equally How extremely patronising. If I had met the bloke I would have treated him exactly as I would any other human being.

Why on earth shouldn't I dislike loud campness? I would have mentioned any element of someone's behaviour, if it were relevant to the OP - which in the case the campness WAS, as I wanted to discuss whether his manner affected the responses.

You can dislike whatever kinds of behaviour you want. There's nothing wrong with that. We all dislike various entirely inoffensive things that groups of other people do. But your dislike for something associated with gay men and your belief that somebody doing it is 'acting a part' sounds prejudiced when brought up in the context of your very valid complaint about their misogyny.

And while it's no big deal in a conversation on a message board, it can be a big deal when we have to make judgements about members of minority groups' wrong doing when any of us occupy positions of power. So I think it is worth mentioning.

Well thanks for mentioning it and I will take it on board, even though I do disagree completely.
I've managed to enjoy my friendships with gay men and women over the years and I stand by my "play the part" phrase.

I am quite happy to agree to disagree! Thanks for being so pleasant about it.

Sometimes it's just the way... I probably jumped too quickly at the "homophobic" thing as it's very hard to defend yourself without resorting to "I have loads of gay mates," etc.

That comment was crass and in bad taste whether said by animal, mineral or plant - IMO woman, straight or gay man who said that would all have been equally glowered at by me. Yeuch!

It is misogyny.
Does not make you homophobic to have disliked it GetStuffezd.

I think the whole 'camp' thing is a bit of a red herring - loud, overacting people grate on me, wether they are gay or straight; just seems v anttention-seeking tbh.

Horrible comment to make; worse so in a public place.

So, to get back on to your point!

I think there are two different issues. The first is why they found it funny. I think some people do find that kind of thing funny and will enjoy it from anyone they consider sufficiently amusing. It is hard to say something about it if they are in a public place, and generally it has to go on for a while and be repeated before anybody does. I hate situations like that, and generally I find it easier to say something if it is about a group I'm not part of and is upsetting somebody there from that group, or if it is in front of kids, young people, or somebody who is on their own. It mostly happens to me on trains.

The second issue is what you do about behaviour like that if it is from somebody you know as a friend, or a friend of a friend. I fortunately haven't met gay men who make remarks like that, but there is more low level stuff that I have ended up putting up with in situations like pubs, not because they're gay and so I thinks it's okay, but because I put up with low level stuff from all sorts of friends of friends because otherwise I'd always be the person complaining.