Guardian article on sex workers and disabled people

[fllowtheyellowbrickroad]

m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/10/sex-workers-disabled-people

Has this already been done? Will put together something literate soon. An currently choking and splitting too much.

And if you are so upset about age of consent being lowered to 14 can you please start agitating and campaigning for police to actually enforce the existing law? NEVER in all my years of care proceedings have the police ever prosecuted the boyfriend of a pregnant 15 year old, even though there is pretty conclusive evidence in the form of her baby that he put his penis up her vagina.

Loads of young teenage girls are having sex and they are being utterly betrayed by their rubbish parents, ineffectual law enforcement and utterly putrid society.

I fail to see any link between this and disabled people being able to buy sexual relief from another adult who is autonomous, trained, safe and well - and crikey, may even get some genuine satisfaction from their work.

I can see I have reached the useful limits for me of this discussion and while I am fateful to all of those who engaged with me respectfully and well, and have me much to ponder, I now think I will just be bashing my head against the cold hard wall of moral 'certainty' - just as the Victorians did with maturation and homosexuality.

So time to take my own advice and leave before I get angry and say something unhelpful. But on the whole, a worthwhile discussion I think.

grateful not fateful

Just noticed loads of other typos. Bastard ipad. Bye now.

Exactly Spero, my crude example above is the kind of chat that someone would have to have with all disabled people. Perhaps with the rider that if they can get someone to agree to have sex with them willingly then thats fine. Otherwise they are denied any choice and need to forget and somehow ignore the daily reminders that other people are able to enjoy part of their human existence that they are not. Mainly as we would rather stop a problem by not addressing it.

Spero, before you go, how do you know what I campaign or don't campaign for ?

Thankfully, the AOC is not going to be lowered. But when I see people advocating for it, people who are intelligent and should know better, I feel impelled to put my opinion on here too.

Challenging the political and ethical basis of prostitution is not the same as shaming and abuse.

There has been no discussion about child prostitution - the point is about changing attitudes towards sexual behaviour. Some behaviour is more tolerated now than before (e.g. masturbation, homosexuality) while other is less tolerated (e.g. child sexual activity). Nothing to do with child prostitution.

I don't agree that legalising and regulating prostitution would make it safer. If I did, I would support that route despite my political and moral objections. I would still consider pimps and punters to be exploiting prostitutes.

I don't agree that these are the "easy moral certainties of the privileged". I don't agree that the wishes of the "loney and desperate" to have sex nor the precious agency of a small number of willing prostitutes outweigh the harm done by prostitution.

I have no idea what you or anyone campaigns for. If you are campaigning, bloody good for you.

If you are not, you are a hypocrite and your angsting is misplaced. I think point about AOC in other countries is very good. Be interesting to find statistics on child abuse in Germany but I bet it is a lot, lot less. I have heard of no Rochdale scandals in Germany for eg.

Really must go now. New level on candycrush I hope.

and Spero, if you are so upset to see someone talking about the AOC on a thread about the rights of disabled people to buy sex...take it up with the poster who introduced it

I will counter it where I see it, even if it is a departure from the main point

personally, I believe Raunch Culture and the normalisation of the sex industry contributes to young girls and boys having sex too early

Prom: The point is, as always it has been. That for the majority of disabled people they cannot act on their impulses as the able bodied do. No masterbation, no chchatting up a potential sex partner, no opportunity to use any of the online dating/shag sites. They need to have reasonable adjustments to use the legal term. So if the moral certaintity of some posters on this thread were to be translated in to action, it would mean that despite the ability of able bodied people to use sexworkers, and that a as yet existing sex industry exists. It would be a careworker, social worker, member of the family, a volunteer, who would have to have that chat.

Leith, I've just googled and there are lots of dating sites specifically aimed at dating sites! And I've seen profiles from disabled people on mainstream dating sites too.

Is there any evidence that there is less child abuse in Germany, Spain and italy?

Given that it is a very under-reported crime generally, and in the UK we don't know the true picture, I would be very interested in learning more about how that conclusion was arrived at.

the argument that lowering the age of consent will reduce the incidence of child abuse is a new one on me TBH, but always interested to hear new ideas if they can help with this stuff.

"That for the majority of disabled people they cannot act on their impulses as the able bodied do. No masterbation, no chchatting up a potential sex partner, no opportunity to use any of the online dating/shag sites. "

Erm, What?

That is a tremendously sweeping statement, and incorrect I might add. Shows a very narrow view of disability.

Good lord just seen another poster now convinced with no data whatsoever that child abuse is much reduced in countries with a lower age of consent.

Am surprised.

I've just realised I said 'dating sites aimed at dating' sites. Der. Obviously I meant 'dating sites aimed at disabled people'.

According to Wiki the age of consent in Malawi is 14, and in DRC is 14 for girls.

I do not think that this has resulted in a low amount of child sexual abuse. What with, you know, having seen the news and all.

Would you like to explain Tabard why those who were interviewed for the articles said what they did, or perhaps would you like to explain when scope/capability/ and Disability Now have conducted research on the subject of relationships disabled people of all kinds report that they find it harder to both find a partner and to achieve a sexual relationship.

It is your level of ignorance about the lifes of other disabled people that is sweeping.

Mooncup: I presume the ads said that the person was disabled? Did they also say they were specificly looking for sex?

WhenTheRed: there are various circumstances other than sex work when a professional is seen as having the right to refuse a client (or vice versa) for reasons of preference or indeed prejudice. If the service being provided involves A visiting B in B's home (whether it's sex, a pedicure or a tarot reading) then A doesn't have to give an actual, provable, demonstrable reason for cancelling the service. Nor, for that matter, does B. Counsellors can refuse individual clients on vague grounds such as 'personality clash' or 'a different counsellor might be more suitable' even when what the refusing party really means is 'I don't want to deal with you because of your ethnicity/sexuality/religious belief/ugliness/you smell'.
The professionals who have got themselves in trouble under equality laws have been the ones stupid enough to make a big fuss about it and demonstrate what bigots they are. I see no reason why the same general set of exemptions-from-the-rule wouldn't apply to sex workers, on the same grounds - that a person is entitled to feel safe in his/her home or in the workplace (when the workplace is the client's home) and with certain types of personal service, client and professional need to feel comfortable with one another.

You just said that "the majority of disabled people they cannot act on their impulses as the able bodied do. No masterbation, no chchatting up a potential sex partner, no opportunity to use any of the online dating/shag sites."

That is incorrect and, frankly, narrow-minded and ignorant.

You also stated that countries such as spain, italy and germany have much lower rates of child sex abuse which is a random guess on your part as far as I can see given that there is no accurate way of measuring this heavily under-reported crime even in our country and any stats that re available will not be comparable due to different religious, societal norms and the approach of police etc. I have no idea how you can even begin to back this up in any meaningful way and yet you state it as fact and an argument for reducing the age of consent.

For those who want the age of consent reduced this will presumably feed through into laws about who can work as a prostitute.

Got to wonder about agenda here, given the juxtaposition of those 2 points. Pro-prostitution and pro-lower age of consent = not a great picture from where I'm sitting. If that's not something you (and others presenting this argument) are comfortable with then prob best to make that clear I think.

Yes, something like 'I should just mention I'm a wheelchair user'. They certainly didn't say explicitly they were looking for sex... people rarely do on dating profiles. (Well, not on Guardian Soulmates anyway.)

SGB difficulty is that there are people (many? majority? I don't know) who do not have the luxury of picking and choosing their clients.

The article I linked upthread just the other day shows that quite starkly.

I remember there was an article (last year?) about where staff in a care home were calling prostitutes in to the residents. The care home were quick to point out that they carried out risk assessments on behalf of the residents they were calling women in for, as they were vulnerable. But at no point was the possibility that the women going in might be vulnerable even raised. As long as the residents were fine then that was the end of the story.

That kind of encompassed the problem for me.

It seems Spain, Germany, and Italy may have far diffrent and possibly better attitudes to young people (i.e. not raping or abusing them.

Id rather not go into details on this thread but i have had about three close shaves with Italian males at the ages of ten , 16 and 17.