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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women in sexless marriages (at husbands instigation) ARE judged. And heres the proof.

45 replies

Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 20:51

There is an article in the Independent today about an extra marital dating website. Ashley Madison.
The journalist who has written the article (Samuel Muston) interviwed two women for the article one of whom is called "Mary" and her husband no longer wants to sleep with her.
And another woman called Cindy.

THIS is what has made my piss really boil. He ends the article with.....

"Morally nether see what they do as problematic." Both simply want sex on their terms"
WTF Marys husband does not want to be physical with her any more. How the fuck is this "on her terms" Is she suppossed to put up and shut up? Simply because she happens to wear a bra.
Is she supposed to never have it again just because he decides he doesnt want it anymore.
So Samuel "Morally neither see what they do as problematic"

Morally does Marys husband see ignoring her needs as problematic? I have a nasty feeling we all know the answer to that one dont we.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/online-dating-seeking-love-on-the-side-8500181.html

OP posts:
Pan · 19/02/2013 23:50

it's tricky isn't it Darkesteyes? Where does the 'sexual power' exist in a relationship? And how does it shift over the years? And..after a while, does it matter? But there's another thread..

McBalls · 19/02/2013 23:52

Pan, yes emotionally poor is about right.
The level of detachment I'd have needed to feel in order to go elsewhere for sex would have come well after the point I knew the relationship had to end.

Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 23:52

Exaactly Mcballs there is that kind of shame. Which makes women reluctant to talk about it. Which means many women suffer in silence. Discovering MN 2 years ago and talking about it on here has helped a lot.

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Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 23:54

Agree Pan. For another thread on another day. Would be an interesting discussion though.

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Pan · 19/02/2013 23:59

yy, I knew for me to have sex with someone else, no matter how 'attractive' she would be, would be just awful. For me. So it didn't happen.
'Detachment' from what we do generally though is a real curse.

Darkesteyes · 20/02/2013 00:04

After seven yrs of nothing not even hand holding i had a LT affair which lasted for 4 and a half years.
So im afraid i cant say the same.

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Pan · 20/02/2013 00:16

No, I mean a detachment from feelings, which is a curse. fwiw. No hand holding or any physical recognition is too much? To actually do something about it, and 'see' someone else, is being 'attached' to your feelings. The 'other party' in the relationship, is ignoring them, for their own reasons.

McBalls · 20/02/2013 00:17

That must be hideous to live through.
It was more acceptable to me (easier?) to leave than have an affair but I certainly don't condemn you or anyone else maintaining the relationship and seeking affection elsewhere.

Darkesteyes · 20/02/2013 00:21

Thanks mcballs thats very kind. im sorry you went through the same thing. its a lonely place

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Darkesteyes · 20/02/2013 00:22

I find MN to be a great place. Very non judgemental.Especially this board.

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Pan · 20/02/2013 00:28

yes, didn't 'wonder off' but I'd never view anyone badly who wishes loving when it's being denied to them.

McBalls · 20/02/2013 00:31

MN is honestly the first place I found others who have gone through the same thing. Ridiculous really that women withholding sex is such a cliched thing yet men withholding sex is so rarely spoken of. And I don't believe it's due to rarity.

It's insulting and damaging for everyone, women are under such pressure to be an object of desire and men to be randy leg-humpers.

It's all such nonsense really.

Darkesteyes · 20/02/2013 00:39

McBalls that is a very good and accurate post. From what ive seen on here and on other sites no it is not a rarity.
And it shows how damaging these stereotypes are...to both genders.

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HairyHandedTrucker · 20/02/2013 14:32

But i often ask myself why does the person who doesnt want to be physical anymore not leave the relationship.

darkesteyes because that person is having all their needs met. Why would they leave? It is you who is unhappy, you who is being ignored. If the sexes were reversed I would still think it is wrong, but I think we are all very accustomed to unfaithful men using the "my wife won't touch me any more" so that they can have affairs while their wife looks after the kids... so we tend to not trust it.

But in a genuine situation I think the person has a right to leave.. I think it is morally wrong to have sex outside your relationship, but I also wouldn't judge someone for getting to the end of their tether. And if your dh doesn't want sex, why should he care if you have it?

I don't believe any one has a right to sex but I believe we all have the right to the pursuit of it, sexual desire is no different to hunger or thirst or tiredness.. it is natural to want it and will result in unhappiness for those who don't get it. I really hope you get the strength to leave what must be a horrible situation for you. I don't know your situation or if you and your dh are best friends, other than the sex side..but if that is the case... you could leave and still be friends with him. And if you aren't best friends..what are you getting out of it?

HairyHandedTrucker · 20/02/2013 14:44

I think it is morally wrong to have sex outside your relationship, but I also wouldn't judge someone for getting to the end of their tether and having an affair. And if your dh doesn't want sex, why should he care if you have it?

that should say

Pan · 20/02/2013 19:35

" sexual desire is no different to hunger or thirst or tiredness..",

well, I'd think it is quite different. Not eating/drinking will kill you. Not having sex won't.

I'd also think it's very individual, re the impact. Nuns and monks eschew sexual contact to a degree that I, for eg, couldn't sustain. For them it's a plan, an outlook. But people from time to time adjust their expectations and accept for varying reasons, it just isn't going to happen.

it's also quite problematic, HHT to say something is 'immoral' but you wouldn't 'judge' someone for having an affair. Judgements are essentially about morality, surely?

HairyHandedTrucker · 20/02/2013 23:43

well, I'd think it is quite different. Not eating/drinking will kill you

Well to be fair "hunger" won't kill you starving to death will. You could live in a monastic life style where you only eat enough to keep you alive and be hungry for the rest of your life the same as you could abstain from sex and technically survive. You would suffer for both of those desires though. I could live in both circumstances technically, but is it a life I would want to live? The basic human urge is to eat and to fuck.. you can't really deny that.

Also, it is immoral to kill someone, if someone killed their husband after he had been abusing them I won't judge them for it though. You can argue my phrasing but I think you know what I mean.

Charbon · 21/02/2013 02:31

I've seen a lot of your posts now Darkest and what I see most is avoidance and displacement, although I sympathise from a humanitarian perspective with the dilemmas both you and your husband face.

As I mentioned on a thread last week, in my view this isn't as straightforward an issue as misogyny. IME, men and women both suffer from gendered expectations of sexual impulses and behaviour.

Like others, I don't interpret that article in the way that you do, or reach the conclusions that you have. Nor do I think that seeking attachments elsewhere solve problems for individuals who crave more than orgasms.

Wondering why your husband doesn't leave your relationship is also I feel, the wrong question. It passes the responsibility over to someone else when the only behaviour you can control is your own.

As a general point, when individuals find their take on a situation increasingly out of kilter with sympathetic others, as has happened with this thread, it's a fair benchmark that your own take on life and situations might be becoming skewed and unbalanced. This is not unusual when people find themselves on the precipice of change, because procrastination being a human fault, it becomes easier to get diverted by ephemeral issues rather than devoting energies to changing one's life.

I sense this is what might be happening to you right now and so I'd gently counsel you to think about doing some concrete things to change your life and move away from the procrastinating diversions that might be hijacking your resolve to make changes. I think if this goes on, you might find yourself becoming angrier and angrier, seeing motives connected to your personal situation that possibly aren't there and positioning yourself as a victim and not an active participant in your own destiny.

I've thought long and hard about making these comments and only hope you receive them as intended, because they come from a well-intentioned place and are only one person's observations.

Darkesteyes · 21/02/2013 13:48

Charbon i talk about it on MN because i find it helps. I have also contacted someone who writes a column about relationships and she said that if the genders in the article had been reversed then it would have been pitched differently.

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Darkesteyes · 21/02/2013 13:50

Thankyou for your post though. I do realise it comes from a good place.

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