Women are being censored because they wish to discuss the politics of gender. I say NO. Who wants to join me?

[Beachcomber]

Ok, I'm guessing that many here have heard about Julie Burchill's explosive article defending her friend Suzanne Moore against trans activists.

I'm also guessing that there are a lot of women who don't know that trans activists have been becoming increasingly influential in many areas that affect Women's Rights since the 1980s and 90s. These areas include feminist websites and blogs (such as the F word), feminist meetings and conferences, women's music festivals, in feminist literature and in academia teaching gender studies (a subject that used to be taught as women's studies) and in post-modernist and queer theory circles.

Transactivists call any resistance to their increasing influence and presence in these areas of female interest "transphobic". Discussion of gender identity as an oppressive social construct and as a threat to feminism and women's rights is also considered transphobic. Consequently, discussion of women as being a political class of people oppressed due to our sex and our reproductive capacity is becoming harder and harder for feminists to have without being accused of transphobia and bigotry. This is very very concerning.

Numerous women have been threatened or silenced by these people (for example they have been no platformed and/or picketed at feminist events or attacked and threatened after writing articles or essays discussing gender identity).

Let me be very clear that this discussion is about transactivists and people who threaten others into silence. It is not about transpeople in general (some of whom have stated that they are afraid to get involved in the controversy).

In my opinion, no matter which side of the gender identity debate one stands on, surely we can all agree that debate should be allowed to take place. One side cannot be allowed to shout down, threaten and silence the other.

The recent events are not just about differing opinions on gender identity though (or I wouldn't be bothering to post this), they are about women's right to talk about and identify sex based oppression and male supremacy, and therefore to fight against sex based oppression and male supremacy. And that is why this is an important if not vital issue for women's rights.

I think women's rights politics are reaching a pivotal moment - a moment in which we must stand up for our right to discuss our status as second class citizens as a result of the biological fact that we are female. If we can't discuss it, we don't have much hope of fighting it.

bugbrennan.com/2013/01/19/for-every-one-of-us-you-silence-100-more-will-rise-to-take-her-place/

To summarise the link - a well known and influential feminist blogger has been censored for discussing the issues outlined above. She is not the first woman to be silenced by these people. I think it is about time we stood up to them.

Thanks for reading.

I think maybe one of the big differences is that you want to walk down the street and be accepted as a woman. I, as a woman, want to go through life being accepted as a human.

hear, hear BC

and this is where feminist issues and transgender issues diverge for me

Me too AF.

And what LRD said.

I can see some convergence too, of course, don't get me wrong.

And I can't see for the life of me how Kim's wish to be accepted as a woman threatens other women's wishes to be accepted as humans.

I think there's a huge amount of convergence. Otherwise I wouldn't be feeling kim's account chimes in so exactly with what I feel. It's just so frustrating that we're still so far apart, despite that convergence.

Kim's personal wish to be what she wants to be does not, WW.

and me, i think the worry for me about transgender issues is they take the problem- society defining roles and people struggling to come to terms with these roles and then come up with very individualistic solutions to these problems - change yourself

it may certainly be possible that in a truly equal society there will be people who are unhappy with their biological sex but these will not necessarily be the same people that are unhappy with their gender roles currently. I may wish to walk into a bar and be wined and dined and flirted with but actually prefer to have a penis rather than a vagina, i may wish to play football but not like my penis

I feel that Kim's situation is her business. I appreciate her talking about it, but I also see that it's private. And I don't think we can understand when we've not been there.

But I don't follow how we got from kims's post to women being accepted as humans? Can you unpack that a bit for me, WW?

I know that it has already been said, but I want to agree that I really don't think that transgender people are responsible for women being told off for talking about a. the political implications of having a female body or b. gender . Transgender people are a very small group and clearly other people with another agenda are pushing this.

I have certainly seen situations where women who are not transgender have been discussing or writing about gender, particularly their own experience of not feeling entirely feminine or masculine, and being told to stop because they have no right to discuss it as it is a transgender issue. But it isn't solely a transgender issue; it is something almost all women I have met experience (with the exception of my Grandma, who could quite legitimately be called cis gendered).

I think you're splitting hairs tbh.

I'm pretty sure kim would like to walk down the street feeling like a woman AND human. Don't we all want to feel like human beings?

Being a woman is part of my humanity. I don't want to erase it and just be 'human', I would just like to get rid of all the negative aspects vis-a-vis the patriarchy.

Who is splitting hairs?

I agree with you, everyone wants to feel human. And IMO, deserves to.

"splitting hairs" ?

to be treated like a piece of meat, simply there as a male's plaything is dehumanising

there was a very long thread on here once where all the myriad ways women are treated less than human were described ("small sexual assaults")

don't minimise that, most women have experienced it at some point in their lives

I think that to respond to kim's 'I want to feel like a woman' with 'I want to feel like a human' is splitting hairs, because it's not like kim is saying she doesn't also want to feel like a human. I think it's creating a bit of a false dichotomy ('they want to be women and we want to be human').

Totally agree drwitch. It happens all over, this depoliticisation to render society's failings as individual problems. It reminds me of the idea that's it's the poor's fault for being poor. Conveniently hiding the structural problems that lead to lack of jobs etc.

Um, how am I minimising sexual assault?

With due respect, I've been raped, I don't need to read a thread about it.

As I just explained, 'splitting hairs' is how I saw the response to kim's post. That's all.

Of course Kim's personal wish to present and be accepted as a woman isn't a threat.

The issue is when changes are made by male dominated society to laws that threaten women's rights. Rights that women have struggled very hard for, rights that many many women do not have yet. Women are not treated as fully human in patriarchy (men are).

LRD - it was a response to BC saying "I think maybe one of the big differences is that you want to walk down the street and be accepted as a woman. I, as a woman, want to go through life being accepted as a human."

Also, of course, Kim's situation is private. But there are feminists actively campaigning against her being able to live her private situation, e.g. Sheila Jeffreys, or that person behind gendertrender linked to in the OP. Not discussing political aspects in the abstract, but actively calling for a ban of treatment which helps Kim and so many other transsexuals.

If you accept that her situation is private, can you also accept that calling for her treatment to be outlawed is an intrusion of her privacy?

Sex workers in Ireland are being censored because they wish to discuss the politics of changes in prostitution law.

There are NO sex workers allowed at the hearings. The debate and decision making is being done entirely by people who don't work in the sex industry without any input from those who do.

Is this a feminist issue?

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KJcCH4NXSak

The video is less than 2 mins long please have a quick look.

I found Kim's ambition to sit at a bar quite interesting. That's something I wouldn't do on my own, from bitter bitter experience (and I'm an old gimmer now). But I'm not fussed about it, to be honest. I'm all about the getting more women in senior positions debate. Or ensuring equal education and opportunities for girls issue. And I don't want those debates derailed by other issues, rooted in an idea of 'what women do' (or, what women are allowed to do or what women should want to do) which has been moulded by the patriarchy.

WidowWadman Jeffrey's disagrees with gender reassignment surgery because she thinks it is inhumane. She thinks it is a violent surgical 'corrective' measure which has a shaky track record in terms of both physical and psychological success.

She would like to discuss that with others who have similar reservations about the practice - there are lots of people who share her concerns.

And AFAIA she is most vocal on the matter when it concerns children.

www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cedaw/docs/cedaw_crc_contributions/SheilaJeffreys.pdf

I'm with beach here again.

As a femininst, I am conflicted about surgery. People seek surgery to make themselves feel more like women, and I hope I am sensitive to the pain they're feeling, that makes them feel surgery will be a cure. But it's not a simple issue. I don't know much about how people object to surgery, but I don't immediately see why it'd be wrong to be concerned that surgery might not be working as the people operated on hoped it would? Am I being very naive here?

window, when you say feminists are campaigning against women like kim ... I can't help but wonder, what about all of us women? There has never, so far as I know, been a situation where women could rely on their private situations staying private, and their decision to walk down a street, staying private. I can see why this feels shocking and unfair if you'd expected more decent, fair treatment. It seems shocking and unfair to me.

But ... why am I being told I'm to blame? Why am I getting lectures about how, if I want to discuss these issues that affect me, I must accept that I am somehow trasphobic?

I don't have time to be trasphobic. I am busy trying to find a tiny bit of space for myself.