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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women and Public Spaces

40 replies

MaggieMaggieMaggieMcGill · 06/01/2013 17:56

It occurred to me when in an airport the other day how most public spaces are set up in such a way as to be cold and clinical and reflect a very 'masculine' type attitude.
The encouragement of girls towards all things pink and fluffy will add another layer to our innate socialisation so when us/they grow up (even if only on a subconcious level) will feel wrong footed and unwelcome in most institutional/public spaces.
I was wandering if anyone else had noticed or thought about this?

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 06/01/2013 22:23

Yes, god forbid we discuss a gendered issue in the feminism section.

Hmm

leith, why do you dismiss the needs of pregnant disabled people? You may not mean to come across that way, but your whole post sounds as if you just don't think they're very important. And that's a bit shit, really, isn't it?

AbigailAdams · 06/01/2013 22:34

Interesting OP. I am going to have to think about this one and get back to you tomorrow. Way too knackered now.

FestiviaBlueberry · 07/01/2013 08:46

It's always great to see people desperate to declare on the feminism section, that nothing is a gendered issue.

Given that the geographical man-made (and I use that term deliberately) features of the world around us were designed for and by able bodied white men and largely still is, how can it NOT be a gendered issue? There have not been Equality Impact Assessments conducted on every bit of road and building design throughout history and oh look - the current government have just abolished EIA's as being an unnecessary bit of red tape. Because wanting to ensure that whatever product or service you develop is usable by everyone in society, not just the strongest and tallest, is red tape. Hmm Most of our physical infrastructure is pre-EIA red tape, so it is designed for men by men. Like older cars, furniture etc.

alexpolismum · 07/01/2013 08:55

I count myself as able-bodied. I have one small issue which means that I do not drive. I also have children, one with SN. I am telling you this as I am speaking from my own experience in this context.

I believe that it is a gendered issue, simply because the overwhelming numbers of carers are women, most small children are cared for by women, the vast majority of children with disabilities are looked after by mothers. And obviously, because it is women who become pregnant.

I never thought about this issue when I lived in a big city and I was childless. I could not drive, but the public transport was great and I had easy access to wherever I wanted to go. The pavements were also well built and wide.

Then I moved to a smaller town. Public transport was unreliable, but it didn't bother me, as I could walk wherever I wanted to go. The pavements were narrow, but again, this was not an issue.

Now I have children and everything has changed. I can still walk, but I also need public transport - one of my children has hypotonia and cannot manage long distances. He can barely manage the ten-minute walk to the end of the road on some days. I use a buggy with him, but it can get tiring pushing it all day long - much better to take the bus. The narrow pavements mean that I cannot push the buggy along the pavement and I have to walk in the road - this goes for anyone with a baby in a pram/ buggy/ whatever. This is where there are pavements, of course, as in a lot of places there simply aren't any.

Public toilets seem to have been designed for thin able-bodied people. There is generally no space to take the buggy in, and the cubicles are narrow, sometimes you can barely close the door. Often there is no disabled loo, although this is getting better. There are also not many public toilets and you have to walk for miles to get to them - fine if you are by yourself, but with the children I generally find myself going into a cafe and asking to use the toilets in there.

Next year, the school run will be an issue - it will take me at least half an hour to walk the children to school in the morning (and half an hour back again for me!).

Of course, I realise that these could be problems for anyone, but as I said at the beginning of my post, the majority of carers are women, the majority of people pushing buggies and taking small children to public toilets are women, the majority of parents taking children to school are women.

alexpolismum · 07/01/2013 08:57

and I haven't even mentioned the steps outside loads of older buildings - some have ramps, some don't...

LRDtheFeministDragon · 07/01/2013 10:06

That's a really good point alex, that makes total sense.

I was wondering - what about public spaces that are also spaces associated with 'wifework', like the supermarket? I'm not sure I can immediately think of anything much, except that I've never been round Tesco and been totally unable to reach the top shelf, the way I'm struggling to get my bag up on the train or to reach the highest bookshelf in Waterstones. But I've never thought about it much.

PlaySchool · 07/01/2013 10:22

the current government have just abolished EIA's as being an unnecessary bit of red tape.

EIAs are more to do with the environmental effects of large scale developments, e.g., pollution, noise, effect on nature, etc. It is nothing to do with the detailed design of public spaces and buildings.

There is more guidance here.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/7676/155958.pdf

PlaySchool · 07/01/2013 10:26

totally unable to reach the top shelf

Me too. This is an issue for the managers of Tesco. There is nothing in the planning system that would make shops have lower shelves.

I must admit that I feel embarrassed trying to reach the top shelf. I'm sure I look a bit comical. Blush

LRDtheFeministDragon · 07/01/2013 10:30

Oh, sorry - I said, I've never been totally unable to reach the top shelf.

But I'm interested you have! I'm 5'5 but I can't say I've ever thought about it hard. Obviously this is also an issue where if you're disabled it must be a right pain.

kim147 · 07/01/2013 11:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PlaySchool · 07/01/2013 11:24

Dragon Yes, I have never been able to reach the top shelf. It drives me nuts!

Lilymaid · 07/01/2013 11:40

I'm also unable to get stuff off the top shelf at supermarkets. Usually I find someone to do this for me, but my default position is that if there were no one to help and I was in a bad mood, I would stand on the bottom shelf ... and bring the lot down!

wonkylegs · 07/01/2013 12:57

One of the problems with accessibility legislation is that it is reactive not proactive therefore unless somebody complains about it, in many situations accessibility will not be improved.
Large companies and councils are often slightly more proactive and will give a nod in the direction of improvements because they have been the target of some expensive litigation on the subject.
Lesson from this is - if areas / facilities aren't accessible, complain (formally by letter) it might not work (as they may only react to being sued) but it may give them the kick up the bum they need. Many places are inaccessible because people don't realise. Telling them gives them no excuse for their ignorance.

kim147 · 07/01/2013 12:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

alexpolismum · 07/01/2013 13:59

LRD I can generally reach the top shelf - things don't seem to be so high in my local supermarkets - but I remember having trouble getting down to the bottom shelf when I was pregnant!

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