Is it really ok that some GPs can refuse to prescribe the MAP

[msrisotto]

Or refer for abortions? They are legally protected due to their religious rights.
Just coming out of the thread where two gay chaps were refused a double room at a B&B due to the owners religious bigotry. B&B owners lost the legal battle as they are running a business and are not legally allowed to discriminate against who they provide a service to based on their sexuality.

But GPs are allowed to refuse a particular service to women on religious grounds? Is that ok? Really? Anyone?

I don't think any doctor would refuse to refer to an EPAU in the event of ectopic pregnancy, no matter what their views. The hippocratic oath would prevent it, because to deny that referral would mean certain harm for the woman.

I would hopefully find out because I would be informed of any special arrangements (such as refusal to offer certain services on conscience grounds) when I registered at the practice. I'd also hopefully see this in any relevant literature/web presence produced by the practice, and it would be reasonable for there to be a notice at reception/waiting area.

It doesn't matter how much the GP in question "loves the sinner", he/she is in effect making a judgement about the morals of that person and it would be kinder to avoid making that judgement so publicly (ie walk back to reception/hurried conversation about rearranged appointments/"sit here and stew a bit longer, thanks love")

If you've maybe spent days plucking up the courage to make the appointment, I can't see how it can possibly be helpful to be told half way through your story "can I just stop you there and refer you to my colleague".

MonthlyChangeling it wouldn't feel reasonable if I were being paid by the hour, and the 20 minute wait would mean I'd miss another hour - or two - of work. It wouldn't feel reasonable if I were there with my toddler, who was going to have a screaming fit in precisely 20 minutes if we weren't home for a nap. It wouldn't feel reasonable if the reason I were seeking an abortion was to escape a violent partner, I was at the Doctor's in secret, and he's back home in 20 minutes.

It would be okay for me, now - but I'm in a privileged position - relatively flexible work, good childcare, supportive spouse, etc. I am aware how fortunate I am, and that my life wasn't always like this, and that most women don't have the good fortune I have.

How things like this affect vulnerable women matters. Vulnerable women view their GPs as people who will help them, and they need to know which ones will, and which ones won't, before it is actually the moment they need that help.

"Agree. But I have no idea how I would find out my GP's views on this without said consultation".

Usually unpopular on MN, but you tell the receptionist why you want the appointment. They would then know who to book you with.

blackcurrants I don't think you have any idea how safe and comforting all your posts sound

you get it

sorry but i am NOT telling the receptionsist why i need an app full stop and certainly would not in the case of map or referral for an abortion! no way.

i am actually going to go down to my surgery tomorrow and request this information, they should be able to tell me? and if not i will say that i want to know and i dont think its unreasonable to ask. i actually dont want to be treated by a dr that would refuse me the map or referral for an abortion. No treatment from them full stop as i disagree with their view and as a gp they are in a postion of power and responsibilty and i am not sure it is right that they can withhold the right to choose from a woman. even if they dont say it they ARE making a judgement, and they wont have to say it for the woman to know that.

i would also be interested to know statistically fo the drs that DO refuse to treat women needing map or abortion what % are male and what % are female.

blackcurrents exactly any wait would be unreasonable for me as well, logistically with 5 children, including a toddler, school runs, pre-school runs and my dps job (shift work and odd hours) it is a pain anyway to sort out a drs app, so to go and then be sent away would be a nightmare. as you say a women may have had to build the confidence to make the app and there could be any number of reasons why that time and ONLY that time is convenient for her and she should not have to rearrange. it is a form of power/control that these drs can use over women, they may well not see it like that but that is what it is,

Doctors should be required to make it public, really obviously so, ie on everything in the surgery that lists the available doctors, that they are superstitious woman-hating fucknuggets opposed to contraception and abortion. And they should not be allowed to work in practices where they are the only GP for miles around. Their human rights to hold beliefs should not trump other people's human rights to access perfectly legal medical treatments.

Honestly, what would be so bad about a practice listing that read 'Dr A, Dr B, Dr C (opposed to abortion and contraception) Dr D.' So that patients all know, and should they need contraception or abortion advice, be able to request appointments with anyone other than Dr C?

I would be very reluctant to tell the GP's receptionist that I wanted an abortion. I would be worried about whether they were anti-abortion and inclined to be judgy.

solid as they are obviously not required to make it public can we ask our surgery fi they have any gps who hold this view? i am intending to ask next week as i dont want to be treated by any gp that holds this view, but i wonder if they will refuse to tell me?

yes they are prom which reminds me when at uni i had a gp do exactly that! and this was a university drs surgery so LOADS of female students needing contraception!

The receptionist handles your notes and would probably therefore have access to the information anyhow.

I suggested it only as the obvious way of securing an appropriate appointment, and the individual would have to weigh up the relative importance of the inconvenience factors posters have listed above against their views on what they say to the receptionist. And of course set that against the likelihood of the doctor having opted out. Which rather brings it back to my enquiry about how widespread use of this opt out it.

interesting point prom !

solid given that they dont have to make this information publicly available i am assuming htere is no way of finding out statistically what %male drs hold this view as opposed to female? unless there has been an annonymous survey?

what if a woman was phoning from home and her abusive partner could hear her and she had told him she was getting an app for her sore throat for example? and she couldnt tell the receptionist? you shouldnt have to tell the receptionist anyway!

Doctors can't refuse to prescribe contraception unless it was medically contraindicated.

prom, yes

but as I said upthread, they have to be able to refer to a colleague

the length of time and attention-seeking hassle that imparts though is the crux, perhaps

the particular doctor at my surgery is female

clemette after i had ds1 (at uni) i wanted the coil and the gp refused it on moral grounds actually, her words as she didnt agree with them. i never followed it up, i went to the family planning clinic instead!

They also can't refuse to do vasectomies, or refer for gender realignment.

Whether people agree or not, SOME people consider abortion to be killing and so to force people to do it/organise it is not exactly respectful of their own human rights.

I am pro-choice but the law is very clear on this and has been for over 40 years.

Yes, they are, BUT they have to refer you on to another GP in a timely fashion.

yes it was a female gp who refused to give me the coil and the nurse that gave me the map was female (again whilst at uni) and very scathing.

but i did wonder if there is a bias male/female, would be interesting to know.