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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sexism alive and well in karcher

37 replies

rogersmellyonthetelly · 16/10/2012 21:17

Went to b&q to get one of those window vac things due to dog jumping up at patio doors constantly and being sick of bloody paw marks on the window.
Karcher pressure washers all lined up with pictures on the boxes of blokes doing manly things like cleaning cars etc. window vac box has picture of ecstatic looking woman cleaning windows. Fan bloody tastic. Tbh when I took it out of the box I was surprised it wasn't pink.

OP posts:
AbigailAdams · 17/10/2012 00:49

Thank you Doctrine. You clearly have more patience than me tonight.

baddancingdad · 17/10/2012 00:50

Thank you for explaining that TDOS; that final point about age gaps particularly I can see being a major factor in any decision about who makes what choice.

None of that suggests what you feel the advertisers should be doing though. What seems most important is that the choice exists. As some of your friends prove, it does. This - as more women reach higher levels of employment, delay childbirth, use daycare etc - will in time become apparent in society's reflections, which is what I would say advertising is. Do we really expect them to lead the issue?

MmeLindor · 17/10/2012 07:04

I can't remember the statistic, but women are v influential in the family decision which car to buy.

You wouldn't know that by watching car ads.

ashesgirl · 17/10/2012 08:43

Bdd, yes absolutely. I currently work and my partner stays at home/does the childcare.

ashesgirl · 17/10/2012 08:47

I see yr point about whether advertisers should take the lead. By the same token, i dont like that my daughter grows up bombarded with images of women assigned to a domestic role. Which is why it matters and why we challenge this stuff, point it out etc.

I tend to agree there will be a swing in portrayal over time. As long as keep questioning this stuff.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 17/10/2012 08:58

Don't forget that the people making the adverts also have a bunch of pre-conceptions about roles in their heads - they aren't created in a vacuum, though various creatives might be tested with focus groups.

Yes I do expect advertisers to realise they are part of the cycle and to take some responsibility for influencing society as well as for "reflecting" it.

rogersmellyonthetelly · 17/10/2012 09:08

Wow I didn't expect such a debate from this. I can see that probably more women do wash windows than men, but would it have hurt in the second picture to have a man? Likewise would it hurt to have a woman washing a car on the pressure washer box? We have a pressure washer, I use it all the time, to clean the patio, to wash my car, cleaning the moss of the stones at the bottom of the house, stuff like that. Dh has only used it once when I was cleaning the patio and he did a short stint while I had a cuppa. He also cleans the shower screens in the bathrooms so he will be using the window vac for that I'm sure, it's very good and very handy.

OP posts:
sunshineandfreedom · 17/10/2012 12:40

What ashesgirl said - and this is part of a much wider issue that includes the colour pink, the princess-ification of girls today and the prevading view in society about housework being "womens work".

If young girls grow up being bombarded with images of women doing housework etc, they can grow up thinking that domestic/childcare roles are all women are good for, and that it is expected of them, as opposed to being anything they want to be. Boys can grow up thinking that it's 'not their job' and expect their girlfriends and wives to do all of that, 'because that's just how it is', not seeing her as an equal and contributing to her not making the most of herself in life, like she would be able to do if it was an equal partnerhip, or an equal society.

It's a vicious circle, because then these girls become women, who continue the theme of reflecting what society has told them they should be, and raise their daughters not to question it either. It's BAD, in other words.

The advertisers also have these pre-conceptions in their heads, as Doctrine said, and if we don't challenge these stereotype and pigeon-hole gender roles on every level, including the pictures on a pressure washer/window vac box, and teach girls and women (and boys and men!) why they're wrong then we're feeding into it remaining in our culture, rather than helping society to move on and eradicate casual sexism.

AnyaKnowIt · 17/10/2012 12:44

Don't waste your money, they are shit Grin

ashesgirl · 17/10/2012 18:59

I've been thinking about whether advertisers should take more of a lead. This is what the European Advertising Standards Alliance has to say about portrayal of women in ads:

"The primary purpose of commercial advertising is to promote goods and services, not to bring about changes in society - what is often called 'social engineering'.

Advertising therefore 'holds up a mirror to society', portraying it in ways which are sometimes idealised or simplified, but essentially a form which consumers can immediately recognise and with which they can readily
identify. To safeguard advertisers? right of free speech and freedom to select their audience, this need has to be respected.

However, it has also to be balanced with the need to avoid stereotypical portrayals likely to be widely perceived as projecting an offensive or demeaning image of women, either as individuals or as members of society.

Differences in national culture notwithstanding, it is no longer generally regarded as acceptable for advertisements to exploit women as 'sex objects' to attract male attention, or to feature them as mere adjuncts to the sale of goods. It is unrealistic to expect advertisements to avoid showing
women in traditional roles, e.g. carrying out household tasks or caring for children, but care is needed to avoid any suggestion that such activity is 'women's work', or has little value, or that those who do it are unintelligent or interested only in domestic trivia.

The last two decades have seen significant changes in the way that women are portrayed in advertisements, reflecting advertisers? alertness to changing public sensitivities and recognition that a positive image of women as individuals and members of society is likely to evoke a better response, as well as avoiding complaints."

baddancingdad · 17/10/2012 19:11

Hi Ashesgirl, thanks for the answer regarding your personal situation; I want to say that I think that's great (although i am a little cautious about saying anything that might be deemed patronising at the moment!)

Thanks also for copying the info; that seems reasonable doesn't it?

I think I understand how direct suggestions of 'women's work' is v.bad and reinforcement of the idea is not good. I still don't think that the example from the OP can really be described as sexist though can it? Sure, it doesn't challenge the notion and - as OP says - it wouldn't have been too difficult to have made it a bit more neutral...

ashesgirl · 17/10/2012 19:25

Whether you think it's reasonable or not comes down to whether you think advertising is a patriarchal industry or not, ie. mostly run by men who allocate budgets, sign off adverts, choose how things are portrayed and regulate the industry.

Some would say this guidance doesn't go far enough.

I suspect it reflects the views of the mainstream though.

Also it's fairly vague about how you strike the balance between freedom of speech, reflecting society and not causing offence.

That's not exactly an easy balance to define admittedly. And the ASA seems to work on a case by case basis as a workaround to this.

No offense taken about my situation. We would continue this way indefinitely I think if DP didn't earn 3 times as much as me. He'd prefer to stay at home for sure.

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