Have you seen the Saudi version of the catalogue? I am so dissapointed with IKEA.

[FryingNemo]

Article here:

IKEA airbrushes women out of catalogue

I know they have apologised but I am so cross for the reminder that I am a second class being in the eyes of so many. Is there any point in writing to them?

MoreBeta that's true and depressing.

MoreBeta - just because things are that way, doesn't mean we have to like it or that we shouldn't try to find ways of changing them. If complaints to IKEA work to change their sexist policy, what is wrong with that?

It is obviously impractical to stop buying products using oil - even if you stopped using a car, by taking other forms of transport you would no doubt be colluding in the purchase of oil from SA.

We have to make our voices heard where they can be and try to influence change where we have power to do so. If you like the status quo, then good for you, but don't criticise others from complaining/trying to do something about it, even if that is only in a small way.

It is equally impractical for IKEA to not comply with local law and customs in Saudi Arabia or indeed in other countries around the World.

What you can practically do is write to IKEA and tell them you will never buy an IKEA product again and explain why you feel that way.

I personally don't buy IKEA products or petrol/diesel so I think my hands are fairly clean on this one.

.... and another thing.

All the gold that has ever been mined in the whole history of the World fits into a cube 20m x 20m x 20m and half of that cube is held in the form of jewellery. Quite of a lot of it mined in South Africa under apartheid or in other places that have dire human rights records and by miners working in apalling conditions. Anyone going to get rid of their wedding rings?

The point I am making is that ethical choices have to be absolute and complete or they are pointless. Its like people that bleat on about climate change and then drive a car, heat their home and fly away on family holidays using fossil fuels. They like telling other people and corporations what to do but when making a hard choice to stop using carbon fuels that actually impacts on them personally - well they become a bit less adamant about it all.

To my mind, the best compromise would have been for the catalogue to use pictures of women - wearing headscarves and loose clothing, but these pictures should have showed women:

gathering together with other women
gathering in mixed groups with other men, maybe in a family context
reading
studying
smiling
laughing
assembling flatpack furniture
telephoning
using the computer
walking around outside
loading the flatpack furniture into a car

So, 'Saudi appropriate' in dress, but leading full and active lives, therefore just pushing the boundaries of what might be depicted in Saudi Arabia.

'ethical choices have to be absolute and complete or they are pointless'

Actually I totally disagree with this, MoreBeta, and it leads to a reductive position where person X is told they can't criticise their neighbours for having an unnecessary petrol-guzzling SUV because person X occasionally rents a Nissan Micra to go away for the weekend. Almost all ethical choices of this sort operate on a continuum.

Having said that, I agree that people need to look at their own ethical choices rather than just moaning about other people's; but much better they reduce their contribution to environmental damage a little than not at all.

Its 'ethics lite' that what I call it.

I'm shocked by the fact that it says in the article that Starbucks removed the woman from their logo 'just leaving her crown' when they opened in Saudi!
Last time they get any money from this woman.

MoreBeta loving ethics lite

Branching Out's idea sounds good.

Any ethics at all are better than none, "lite" or otherwise. I agree with MooncupGoddess. No improvements with human rights or any other issues would ever be made if we all took the attitude that there is no point in doing anything if you can't/won't do everything.

In this instance, IKEA could have dealt with the cultural issue in SA in the way described by BranchingOut rather than just taking the easy/cheap route of removing all the women completely.

MoreBeta I don't drive. I walk everywhere within the town (not a large town anyway) and use public transport on rare occasions when I have to go somewhere else. I buy local products as much as possible, thus reducing the need for transport over long distances, and making it easier to boycott large companies I disapprove of for one reason or another. I heat my home in winter with a real fire, logs sourced locally. There's not much more I can do at home to support my principles, but I can write a letter, because I believe our voices must be heard. People need to be aware of what we are saying. They might not be interested, but the seeds of awareness will be sown, and perhaps gradually they will grow. If no one writes or complains, then there is no hope of future change

"thical choices have to be absolute and complete or they are pointless"

That is ridiculous. No one is perfect, no one is immune to ethical dilemma. So does that mean we should never make any effort? Bring on the raping and pillaging.

uppercut why are you here?

The UK broke the miners strike by importing coal from apartheid South Africa. Hence no one died freezing to death in homes without electric.

Thats an interesting ethical dilemma - old ladies freezing to death in teh UK versus oppressed people in a far away country.

They have issued a statement saying that some pictures could have been left in.

franchisor.ikea.com/statement_cat_sa.pdf

I've emailed tham and asked why they couldn't just remove the men as well? Surely you don't actually need models in a catalogue.

I was looking forward to my next trip to Ikea, but I can manage without. I cannot manage without petrol and my jewelry is mostly from Australia.

I don't buy oil or IKEA by chance - and I used to be an oil trader as well so I am no saint. How the World gets its oil is a really grim business and we all benefit from it. All our hands are dirty.

'ethical choices have to be absolute and complete or they are pointless'

Absolutely. No point giving British women the vote if women in SA can't vote. No point curing lung cancer if you can't cure all cancers. No point switching to solar power unless the entire world stops using any fossil fuels ever.

IKEA is a business. Businesses all market to customers in the way they think will make most money. Kudos to IKEA for apologising and saying they 'represent Sweden'. What British company has 'values' ? What Brisish company is marketing in Saudi Arabia showing women wearing normal short skirts and in the workplace?

The wahabist outlook on women, equality etc is repellent, but IKEA sell flat pack furniture (probably to women), they are not a political party or a charity. While I buy petrol from Saudi Arabia it's a bit rich to expect IKEA not to sell them some BILLY shelving.

I wonder if they produce halal meatballs for the IKEA restaurants in Saudi?

I wonder if it was a choice between airbrushing them out or airbrushing a niqab over them? Ikea can't be blamed for Saudi culture, a woman needs to be fully covered in public there, presumably they have similar laws on how women are presented in photographs, especially those intended for a family audience?

PiggyBank of course the meatballs in Ikea in Saudi are Halal. All meat in Saudi is Halal.

I love Ikea. Have lots of fond memories of going to Ikea as a child with my family in Jeddah (Saudi Arabia) long before Ikea was a word people in England even knew about.

So what if they airbrushed the women out? Keeping them in would not have benefitted them.

My bioligy books had lots of pictures blacked out with marker pen. My mum's cook books had all the chapters on cooking pork cut out. National Geographic magazined had more pages with black pen scribbles over the pictures that without. Imagine the pictures of native tribes with hardly any clothes on! That's what I had to do, imagine it, because I couldn't see the photos.

They are a backward country. They are not going to change becuase Ikea keep the women in the catalogues. Ikea might as well sell furniture to the poor people like us who were stuck there. Have you seen the Saudi furniture?! Hideous stuff. Give me Ikea flat pack any day over ornate gold and velvet hideousness.

Oh please.

Why do women need to be 'respected' in a way men do not?

Ikea are not being sexist, its to do with culture in Saudi.
All women are coloured in, on most products.
Saudis love Ikea!