Can men be feminists?

[IsSamNormansDad]

This is my first post in FWR, so please be gentle.
I was chatting with DH about random stuff and he remarked that girls always seemed to be portrayed playing with 'house stuff' and boys seemed to be portrayed being 'actiony' (his words not mine).
I agreed, and said that with a DC of each sex, he best get used to his daughter being told she couldn't/shouldn't play with stuff that's not 'girly', must wear pink etc. he got a bit annoyed that it would be assumed that she wouldn't be as strong as her brother etc.
He was really quite pissed off when he realised she might not have the same opportunities as her brother just because she's a girl. I told him that I think he is a feminist, but DH thinks only women can be feminists. He's wrong isn't he?

Widow Wadman - "I find the idea that it has to be women owning the term and leading the movement actually rather sexist."

Have there been any men who you think should have led the feminist movement in the past, or who should be leading the feminist movement now?

that's an interesting question, vesuvia

I can't think of any men in the public eye, who could legitimately be described as a "feminist"

I would be more than happy to be put right oin this matter, though

In the past - Henry Fawcett and John Stuart Mill spring to mind, and the question is not whether I can name any man about who I think should be a leader right now. I can't, but I couldn't name any woman either. There are some inspirational feminists about, but I don't give a toss about their sex.

I just think that being male shouldn't prevent anyone from actively participating and even leading in feminist activism.

I don't see any men on the internet getting threatened, stalked and in fear for their life for their "feminist activism", tbh

If men want to be taken seriously in their beliefs, they have to put their money where their mouth is, publically. Not just in safe spaces, where there are cookies being passed around for every magnanimous, avuncular statement made round the watercooler/in the comfort of their living room

Well, by the same token, AF I've never heard of a prosecution, or even a sniff of a proposed prosecution of anyone for putting someone else 'in fear for their lives' for being a 'feminist activist' on the internet.
Is there such a case?

pan, I know women that have been stalked online for detailing their feminist beliefs

don't you ? Haven't you seen it ?

Do you have to have been stalked for your feminist beliefs in order to be a proper feminist? Oh dear.

I didn't think they could be because they aren't woman. They can be sympathetic to the feminist cause though.

No, can't say I have really. I've known/know some v assertive and t'internet active feminists, but the 'stalking/threatened life' scenario hasn't featured at all. Some nuisances yes, as the www is ww. But nothing of the dire circs suggested here.
Have they been reported and followed up at all, do we know?

did I say that, WW ?

Well, you say you've never seen men speaking out in public about feminist issues. I've got a few on my twitterfeed, and whilst they probably are not getting the same amount of shit as some outspoken female feminists, they do quite a heap, too.

So the reason why you're not seeing any men "putting their money where their mouth is", it may be based on your own selection on what/who you're reading.

You are completely right, WW

I need to stop being taken in by my friend's half-baked stories and start listening more carefully to the men

But, yes of course a man claiming to be a 'feminist' needs a bit more enquiry, imo.

A bit like Jesus' "a rich man entering heaven is like a camel through the eye of a needle" thing.

What are you on about?

do you mean Pan ? That's not a very inclusive thing to say, WW

No, I think WW means you, AF. You weren't being consistent.

fwiw

I got it, Uncle Pan

Pan there are feminist bloggers who get death threats all the time. They also have people threatening to rape them, torture them, burn them alive, etc.

There was a case of a feminist who had to shut down her blog and go into hiding because people stalked her, found out her name and address and communicated it to an abusive expartner.

This is why women talk about 'safe spaces' and moderate their blogs so heavily - otherwise these spaces become full of men using abusive language and making threats of violence. Some of these men also like to let a woman know that they know where she is and are biding their time before they come for her.

Also the pro prostitution lobbies/pimps/traffickers harass women who blog about the harms of prostitution. Many of these women also have ex-johns contacting them and threatening them.

I think a lot of people don't realise the extent of this male violence.

I bloody well hope they can! I am raising my sons to understand the situation we live in and the problems and I teach them about the struggles of women through history.

My eldest gets outraged by it! My youngest lacks the ability to understand, but I don't let that stop me!

any sexist language is stamped on, I rant and rave talk about the objectification of women, no mtv for example!

If they don't grow up to be true believers and supporters of feminism, I shall eat my hat!

I used to think men couldn't be feminists. This is going back a bit and largely because of the feminist theory I'd read, learned about at uni, that the definition of feminist is 'a woman who.....'

I'm now in my forties and my dormant feminism has been fiercely reignited by virtue of having a daughter. I moderate on a local feminist group on facebook, which was already up and running when I joined and has lots of male members. The men in the group are all good guys, as far as I can tell, but there was an incident recently that caused a lot of heated debate. There's a feminist gathering coming up soon in Newcastle, (www.nefeministgathering.com/), and our group are registered as supporters, but the decision was taken to make the NEFG women-only which really got some of the mens hackles up, and actually several women were very disappointed by it too. There were calls, mainly from male members of the group, although some women supported them, to withdraw support from the gathering altogether. This is where my old ideas about men not being feminists came to the fore, because men were taking up a lot of space in a forum about, (not denying that men and boys are also affected adversely by the patriarchy), feminism and issues that primarily affect women.

Anyway, we ended up discussing whether men can be feminists. It's something I kind of see as a new development, maybe it is alienating to say to men - you can't be this, when the more men that work with feminists, the more likely there will be progress. I don't know, but I think it's not really all that important at the end of the day, what you call yourself, it's actions that count.

If you take feminism in its most simple definition as put by the Oxford dictionary then of course men can be feminists. I suppose it depends how you define feminism.

My husband wouldn't be so precious as to call himself a feminist, but what shocks me is that his views are more feminist than many (most even?) of the women that we have debates with. If a bloke can get his head round the simple fact that men and women are worthy of being equal, how come it is so difficult for many women? Never understood that.

And it is not generational. I'm 69 and my husband is older than me. It's to do with having a sense of fairness, justice and, actually common sense.

Has anyone heard of Alan Alda the actor. He has been campaigning and giving money to feminism for years and years. He is very outspoken about women's rights. I think he has every right to call himself a feminist.

Come back, OP, and tell us your thoughts on reading the thread!

(Likes more OP engagement, clearly feeling needy)

My H is a feminist. If he's speaking to women who say: no, men can't be feminists, they can be allies he says: cool, call me an ally, sign me up! I'll help run the creche during the conference, and help organize the tea... because he's feminist

Some men insist on being not just A Feminist, but The Feminist, and telling other women how to do feminism PROPERLY.

These men are not, imo, feminists at all. A man's place in the feminist movement is a supporting role. Women cannot be liberated from without.
That said, there is a very very very great deal that feminist/feminist-allied women can do; because they have (1) Access to men's attention and respect in a way that women do not and (2) Access to things that men say to other men, but perhaps wouldn't say when women are around. That gives feminist/feminist-allied men great power and great responsibility. Challenging rape culture, explaining the ways in which all unknown men are Shrodinger's Rapist - demonstrating lived equality when it comes to taking time off work to look after their sick kids, etc etc etc.

I happen to have lucked out in the DH isn't just someone who calls himself a feminist, he does the work. He reads, he signs petitions, he challenges sexism and insists on safe, respectful spaces at his work (which is a powerful move, specially as a male teacher to teenage boys), he is an equal parent (eg, doesn't think the boys are 'my responsibility' and therefore is happy to take off with them for enough time for me to go to a conference, write a blog post, whatever) and we as a family donate to women's refuges and local rape crisis organizations.

I 'lucked out' in that I met him at all, but I'm not lucky (though oh so many other mothers tell me I am!) ... I'm demanding and picky, and I wouldn't have chosen to live my life with anyone less.
Incidentally, we're raising 2 boys (1 here, 1 on the way) with lots of books starring strong female role models, dolls (so he can push the pushchair like daddy! Give baby a bath, like daddy! change a nappy, like daddy!) and masses of love and support in their own feminist journeys. I consider this something I owe other women (and their daughters!) - all men should be a feminist as my H.