Should We Be Renaming The Vagina?

[FrothyDragon]

"THE nastiest name ever to be given to the female sex organ is ''vagina''. ''Vagina'' is Latin for ''scabbard'' or ''sword sheath''. A scabbard is owned by the same person as owns the sword that it exists to house."

(Taken from the Greer review of Wolf's latest book)

So. Given the connotations of the word, I propose that women rename their "vagina", to give us a word for it which doesn't imply male ownership.

Thoughts?

People have been saying that about patriarchy for decades, deemented.

If you don't like something, can you not try to change it?

Hmmm... the original meaning is bothersome but word meanings change with time, vagina is a nice-sounding word and we don't associate it with scabbards and what not nowadays. So, I would be in favour of keeping it.

dee - I get what you're saying, I'm not making out that it doesn't have that function or something, but that describing that function in these particular terms is a bit cringey when you stop and think (or it was for me). If that makes sense?

LRD, it is sometimes referred to as the birth canal, isn't it?

Well, if it is true that a vagina is made for a penis to go into, it is equally true that a penis was made to go into a vagina. There's a reciprocity there which the sword and sheath terminology doesn't replicate (the sword has a function and rationale that doesn't reference the sheath, but the sheath doesn't have that autonomy). So there is an offensive misrepresentation in the original coinage of "vagina"

You'd think it'd change with time, Frances

I was told by my Latin teacher that vagina means simply 'sheath', nor scabbard.

A sheath is not the same as a violent weapon holder. A sheath can be used to hold lots of useful tools. Such as a spindle, skewer, or fishing rod.

Therefore I am happy to call it a vagina.

As an aside, I once told a friend who had been the victim of FGM about the enveloping the penis thing and she was most happy to think of it that way and as a result began to have sex with her DH again, so I wish it was more of a widespread way of thinking about PIV intercourse.

Nope, penises are made for urinating, too. And solo sexual pleasure.

Also, "penis" isn't latin for sword, sheath and so forth.

Lignum Vitae, SGM

That's in Latin, Frothy.

What I mean is that people don't associate the word vagina in English with scabbards.

However, some (most?) people do not understand how female genitalia works and it's certainly a huge problem.

Nap, check the link in the post above yours. Seems your Latin teacher may have been wrong.

frances - true, but only in the context of pregnancy and labour, I think? I mean, you wouldn't refer to your birth canal in any other context, whereas you'd refer to your vagina in the context of pregnancy/labour.

nap - definitely scabbard. Sheath too, but it does mean scabbard in Latin. Besides, it's not just 'holding' or 'containing' something IMO - it's also doing other things (like, well, orgasms!). The emphasis on it as a container seems kind of passive to me, I reckon.

Penis is such an ugly word, isn't it?

Napdamnyou, it certainly feels more like enveloping to me.

I find the idea sometimes expressed of a vagina being a gaping hole/wound needing to be filled/stabbed at by a penis to be bizarre and think people who hold such views must not have very good sex lives.

Maybe penises souls be called membrum virile.

Frances, yes. But the point is, in translation, the same meaning stands.

And yes, the fact a huge number of people don't understand the workings of female genitalia is hugely problematic. I do think better education is needed in all areas regarding females and sexuality.

Should not souls, fucking iPad.

Yes, LRD, you're right.

I think the reason for the two terms is to separate motherliness and sexiness.

The penis has evolved to go into a vagina as much as the vagina has evolved to incorporate the penis. Of course both organs have other functions too, but the act of sex is equally explanatory for both of them. That is the sense in which there is a parity, a reciprocity, that the sword and sheath terminology doesn't capture.

I have just majorly confused some perfectly lovely MNers chatting about history by mis-posting this. Oops. Anyway:

Ewww. Looked up the etymology further. Not keen.

'1680s, from L. vagina "sheath, scabbard" (pl. vaginae), from PIE wag-ina- (cf. Lith. voziu "ro cover with a hollow thing"), from root wag- "to break, split, bite." Probably the ancient notion is of a sheath made from a split piece of wood (see sheath). A modern medical word; the Latin word was not used in an anatomical sense in classical times. Anthropological vagina dentata is attested from 1908.'

It's a natural orifice, not something split. Ick.

(I am absurdly squeamish, btw, so don't make too much of this reaction, it would be the same to dozens of other things most people wouldn't care about.)

frances - yes, I agree.

Yep, I'm down with renaming the vagina. I know cunt is hated by some MN feminists, and I understand and kind of agree with the reasoning, but I quite love it.

Lignum Vitae and Membrum Virile sound wonderful, don't they? Are there any grand, fancy names for fanjos out there?

COMRADE!!!

Ahem. Back on track.

Intriguingly, Cunt didn't become "obscene" until Shakespeare's day, from what I remember, but was used before then, in reference to a woman's genitalia

It's faintly smutty, but not obscene, yes.