Female prisoners being forcibly strip searched.

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

uk.news.yahoo.com/women-prisoners-clothes-cut-off-230937926.html

Women in New Hall Prison have been subject to being restrained, having their clothes cut off and then being forcibly strip searched. This in my eyes is sexual assault no? The chief inspector of prisons has described these assaults as unnaceptable, but as far as I can see they aren't actually punishing anyone involved or offering any support to the women.

That answers 'why', generally, but not 'how' WRT to this issue, though, Margery.

Even if men are treated equally?

Are you sure that this doesn't happen in all prisons, all? (I'm not saying I think it does, I don't know, I'm just asking how you know this is specific to New Hall.)

Sorry - it would be highly unlikely to happen in all prisons.
But is this really something that only happens at New Hall?
And if so, why?

I will check out tomorrow that the same procedure is followed in male prisons, and find the PSI (Prison Service Instruction) that deals with this.

I am nor sure that body cavity searches are carried out at all these days.

They have chairs for prisoners to sit on that scan cavities. Called BOSE chairs or something like that.

Thank you, Norman!

I don't know it's specific to New Hall, just that the thread is about the article which is about New Hall specifically.

The article does quote the inspector for all prisons though, so I have assumed that he has access to the reports from all the other UK prisons and has singled New Hall out for a reason.

I didn't know that Norma I think that sounds a lot better than cavity searches.

The searching policy is on the internet

here

body cavities will only be searched by medical personnel. And only with consent, and only in the case of clinical need (not for searching purposes).

Men can be asked to sqat, in order that their genital area be examined. Women should not be asked to squat.

I think it also says that both of the officers must be the same sex as the offender.

That said, the whole treatment of female prisoners, the rate of mental health problems, the self harm rates in prison, etc., etc., are of real concern, and a femanist issue.

May start a seperate thread when I have more time (and am not about to go on a teleconference).

Boss chairs can't detect drugs, so cavity searches are sometimes still required.

It says in the policy that cavity searches are not undertaken by prison officers, and only by medical staff on clinical need.

You can bet they would get their ass (scuse pun) sued if they did not follow the policy. Unless you have seen something more recent?

If it involves women it is a feminist issue. End of

But surely some are more critical than other...ie if there is already parity/equality in something (as would seem to teh the case here, its more a non-issue.

Er, yes, I know what you were responding to, SGM, but as I said above, investigating procedure as in this instance would be rather different from investigating the rape of prisoners (and were you referring to specific rape(s), or was this a figment of your imagination? something to huff and puff about)
... and it did seem that there was a fair of confusion WRT strip/internal searches. But perhaps you hadn't noticed that. (Didn't mean to sound patronising there...)
I've never thought you're completely fucking stupid, BTW.

The rape, or sexual exploitation of female prisoners does take place.

Some prison officers were convicted within the last 12 months of this,

oh and naice italics Mango

and telling someone to piss off is always the winning argument, isn't it?

Yes, the rape and exploitation of female prisoners takes place. And should face criminal sanctions, obviously.

But my understanding is that legally that's a compltely separate area from procedure in women's prisons, which in this case would be a human rights issue possibly with gender-related issues attached. (Hope those italics haven't distracted you too much Norm.)

And if this is discussed as a gendered HR issue, it seems to muddy the waters a bit by chucking discussion of unrelated crimes into the argument.

(And I've every right to point that out, SGM. If you feel patronised, that's not my issue. I don't believe we're all obliged to agree with each other on MN are we?)

This happens to men too. There are reasons for it.

I never said that the searching of prisoners is related to rape/sexual assault. The searching is done by same sex officers as well. Most of the criminal cases I have heard/read about are more related to gaining benefit (more ROTL or release on temp licence for example).

As I said earlier, the treatment of women by the criminal justice system has some real questions to answer. I am not sure that cutting clothes off offenders who have been refusing a search is the place to start though...

If your first sentence is addressed to me, I know you haven't, Norma.
(You'd have to read back through the thread to see comments that chuck in criminal assaults on prisoners with procedural errors... Anyway, let's get past that please.)

I agree, (and said above) there are massive issues with the treatment of women in prisons. My understanding is that any potential infringement on individual prisoners' rights had to be proportionate to the aim (and clearly the possiblity/probability that cutting clothes at New Hall was disproportionate to aim to be achieved). So that in intself would be a straightforward HR issue (I think). But I wonder to what extent gender has been taken into account in these sorts of cases in relation to 'proportionality'?

I hope that makes sense. Would be very happy indeed if someone who knows about this can elucidate a bit. (And wouldn't feel patronised at all.)