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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Brave - anyone else seen it yet?

42 replies

OptimisticPessimist · 08/08/2012 21:41

Saw this today with the kids. Thought it was great to have a female protagonist in a kids film for a change (and a really strong one at that), and a good chunk in the middle just with Merida and her mum - not even showing what was happening in the castle at the same time. Was very pleasantly surprised as well that she didn't meet an alternative suitor/have any romance/get married at all, given Disney's usual "happy ending" schtick.

Has anyone else seen it yet?

OP posts:

DioneTheDiabolist · 17/08/2012 23:20

Saw it today with DS. We both loved it. The characters were extremely well written. The animation was spectacular.

Margerykemp · 24/08/2012 04:19

Yes it was very good to see a mother/ daughter relationship on screen esp in a cartoon

Merida does have a Rebekah brooks look though

HipHopOpotomus · 24/08/2012 16:07

Saw it this week & I loved it. I did find all the bear stuff quite frightening though, and with all the Scottish fighting it is quite violent.

DD - nearly 5 - was terrified in parts (on floor of cinema) but recovered enough to agree that she did quite like it but it was scary in parts (this shows progress from a year ago where Toy Story 3 was proclaimed to be terrifying throughout and where were the funny bits?).

But it was a refreshing film, loved the mother/daughter dynamic and Mum as a bear was really great, though I did fear it was going a bit "Dumbo" when they had her tied up. Thankfully not.

It was brilliant & the animation wonderful, music great and humour spot on.

Lovecat · 25/08/2012 13:57

Loved it :)

I cried, it was so lovely to see a mother/daughter relationship on screen.

And the animation - never seen a horse so realistically animated

By the way, are DD and I the only people who sat through the credits and saw the joke at the end, or is everyone else here Pixar nuts like us (only us and the cleaner stayed at our showing!)?

Levantine · 25/08/2012 14:01

Oh that's great, DS1 really wants to see it. I clicked on this thread thinking it might say it was a sexist load of tosh

amybelle1990 · 25/08/2012 16:21

I missed the joke at the end :O I wish the cinema told you when stuff comes after the credits. The pixar short before the film was amazing though. The best one yet :)

AnnieLobeseder · 26/08/2012 17:08

Really? Did no-one else think the message was "girls, don't try to break out of the roles you're forced into because if you do, terrible things will happen (like you mother turning into a bear)". In the end, she still had to choose one of the boys, how had things really changed? All she got was a reprive for a little while.

Did I miss something?

CardgamesFTW · 26/08/2012 21:03

Annie, how disappointing! Was hoping for a positive Pixar movie for girls.
Did anyone else get the same impression of the movie's message?

peeriebear · 26/08/2012 21:17

But she didn't have to choose one of the boys in the end, the elders all agreed that the youngsters were free to 'court' with whoever they wanted. The
princes were free to try and win her heart but she didn't have to accept! :)
The terrible thing happened because she and her mother wouldn't listen to each other. By the end of the film they had seen each other's point of view.

Original poster

OptimisticPessimist · 27/08/2012 09:53

I didn't get that impression at all Annie at the end of the film the tribes all left, Merida went off riding with her mum. The mum changed far more than Merida did.

OP posts:

Sabriel · 27/08/2012 10:30

I thought the message was more about seeing the other persons point of view. They couldn't heal the breach until they'd both done so, rather than one forcing their opinions on the other. I liked the way the mother was a real character in her own right, instead of just being "the mother".

summerflower · 27/08/2012 11:46

The message was about challenging tradition and gendered expectations; on reflection, I think the film showed how men are trapped by these too, as the young men who were expected to court Merida weren't there through choice either.

Re the mum being turned into a bear, the point was really about the fear of what might happen if you challenge expectations, a fear which makes most of us cling to them, also that challenging expectations might not be straightforward. To an extent this fear was justified as the mum was turned into a bear - but by working together, both Merida and her mum came up with a better way forward. So, challenging expectation is scary, it might cause chaos, but out of that, you get something better?

I did wonder, as I said above, whether the expectation to meet and marry a man was still there, though, just that the choice of partner should be lead by the heart.

AnnieLobeseder · 27/08/2012 13:32

Okay, perhaps I was being 'overfeminist' in my critique.

I asked DD1 (7y and 2d old) what lessons we could learn from the film, and she said "not to ask strangers for potions".

Which I think is a lovely, wise and practical message to take home!!

I also told her that some people might think it was about following your heart even when you're told to do something else, or that perhaps it means that if you don't do what you're told bad things might happen. In her infinite wisdom, she said it meant both - that you should follow your heart but sometimes bad things might happen if you do.

She's a frikkin' philosophical genius, that kid!

summerflower · 27/08/2012 15:11

She's a frikkin' philosophical genius, that kid!>>

Agree!!

NicknameTaken · 29/08/2012 11:53

I loved the film, and have seen it twice with DD, aged 4. Inspired by this thread, I asked her what we learned from the film:

"Children shouldn't shout at their parents, if they are the queen." [Hmm, quite a large get-out clause, there]

and

"Parents should kiss and cuddle their children if they are sad". Aw.

I thought the portrayal of Merida's father was interestingly ambivalent.

SPOILER ALERT

He listened to her account of climbing the Crone's Tooth when her mother didn't, and was proud of her. He gave her weapons. But he wasn't able to empathize at all about her fears of marriage. He was afraid to tell her, so her mother did, and when acting the role of Merida for her mother to practice the conversation, he was quite mocking about her desire to run free with her hair blowing in the wind. I think this was quite an interesting portrayal from a feminist point of view - even a sympathetic man can't necessarily identify with the fear of confinement (in the literal and perhaps metaphorical sense).

rosabud · 29/08/2012 22:42

I loved the film but have also loved reading your comments and your children's responses! The best thing was the mother/ daughter relationship and the way you could sympathise so eaily with both sides of the argument - I wish my 15 year old had come!! We decided that it was the first Disney film we could think of that didn't end in a marriage, which made a very refreshing change! The humour was brilliant too.

bronze · 29/08/2012 22:43

I have seen it. I may have cried

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