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Original poster

Supporting abortion to term.

676 replies

VegansTasteBetter · 27/07/2012 20:01

Asking this question in feminism because, 1. I don't want a pro/against bunfight and 2 because I have only ever seen this comment made by feminists. *

I have seen the comment made that someone would support an abortion up until term for any reason (so in theory just because they changed their mind would be acceptable I guess).

If you take this stance is it because you feel to decide a cut off date for abortions would be to choose an arbitrary date in a pregnancy and that we need legally to have free access to abortions... but actually if your mate said, "just found out I am 37 weeks pregnant really don't want it, going for an abortion" you would be horrified and because you know it isn't likely to ever happen

or

if in the above scenario would you happily (assuming it were legal) take your friend down to the clinic to get an abortion because you belive the mother's choice trumps the fetus/babies right to life?

I'm prochoice but I have a real difficulty with people saying that it's acceptable for any reason up till term. And in the above scenario (if it were legal) I'd support my friend's right to demand to be induced early for her mental health and to give the baby up for adoption but not for an abortion.

  • disclaimer: I am a feminist but don't support this view
OP posts:
AnnieLobeseder · 30/07/2012 21:17

SGB - I'm somewhat disappointed by your performance on this thread, because you usually make a lot of sense. Here, however, you seem to be doing little other than shouting that abortion should be legal to term because the woman is more important and that's all there is to it, and anyone who disagrees is a woman hater and thick.

I find your view rather blunt and without any depth on this occasion. You still haven't answered my question. If a woman wants a foetus out of her body ay any point, and she is able to have that foetus removed on demand, how are her rights over her body being infringed in any way by that foetus remaining alive? Why does it have to die?

In this case, it's not about a foetus being more important, but equally important. And it's not about men imposing themselves on women's reproductive heath, but other women who feel that a woman's sovereignty over her body is all well and good, but perhaps it's shouldn't automatically extend to her having sovereignty over the life of the foetus she carries.

Xenia · 30/07/2012 21:25
  1. We allow abortion to term under English law in fact even 42 weeks if the baby is still in there in certain cases - disabilities etc.
  1. Before then we have the cut off - 24 weeks? Before then it is effectively abortion on demand.
  1. I imagine there are a good few countries you can travel to for a late abortion if you want one.
  1. I am hoping science will in the next 10 years work out a way to remove an unborn child where the father wants it to live but not the mother and he then implants it in a surrogate and that is allowed where the mother is allowed to give up all financial obligations to it where she wishes that. That would solve the issue where a father wants the child and mother does not - which I've always felt was rather unfair to putative fathers.
  1. As for when it is right to kill a child, I set out English law above. The romans and many others allowed infanticide of new babies. I have never really understood why it's murder to smother your down's baby at bi rth but lawful to abort it the day before birth.
RabidAnchovy · 30/07/2012 21:26

Personally I think abortion to term is a disgusting idea, and I am pro choice.
It is not about ownership of ones body, I own my body but there is no way I would kill a full term baby, nor would I support any of my family or friends who thought that "aborting" a baby at term was acceptable.

DuelingFanjo · 30/07/2012 21:30

"trills so all my prem babies weren't babies but foetus ... utter bollocks ! My smallest was 32 weeks...he WAS a baby and is now a young boy."

technically they became babies when they were born, however premature. Until then they were foetuses and potential babies. They were wanted and so you were emotionally tied to them. Other people make decisions based upon their attachment to their foetuses.

topknob · 30/07/2012 21:31

summerflower agreed. Not a foetus but a baby :( I can't believe the volume of women on here thinking it is all about them and their bodies. Another life is involved in this debate. A fully viable life.

DuelingFanjo · 30/07/2012 21:31

"If a woman wants a foetus out of her body ay any point, and she is able to have that foetus removed on demand, how are her rights over her body being infringed in any way by that foetus remaining alive? Why does it have to die?"

why does it have to live?

topknob · 30/07/2012 21:33

Must add to make SGB happy..I am not a woman hater, I have a hell of a lot of respect for other women and I am not anti abortion !

AnnieLobeseder · 30/07/2012 21:35

Why does it have to live? Simply because it is capable of doing so, on its own, like all the rest of us.

GoranisGod · 30/07/2012 21:39

Honestly the femenists on this thread are really doing themselves no favours when the best argument they can come up with to those who have a different view is "you are women haters"....

topknob · 30/07/2012 21:41

Am I wrong to say I wonder if these people who are so pro term abortion have kids? And if so do they still feel that their lives are more important than that of their child/ren?

Lucyellensmum99 · 30/07/2012 21:44

why why why WHY? is the woman more important than the baby that happens to be inside her? It is an argument that makes me feel sick - and would put me off being a feminist if that was the criteria. I only agree with abortion to prevent suffering to the baby, or if the mother's life is at risk. Does that make me a woman hater? FFS, that is just mental.

There is a little girl in my DDs class, she was born at 24 weeks. That says enough to me.

Lucyellensmum99 · 30/07/2012 21:45

well said tobknob

Original poster
VegansTasteBetter · 30/07/2012 21:45

why does it have to live?

What? Seriously? Who do any of us?

OP posts:
OptimisticPessimist · 30/07/2012 21:46

I think my concern with allowing induction, rather than termination, on demand is that women would a) be pushed into continuing pregnancies they would have terminated because "it's only 28 weeks to have to put up with it" b) that gradually, if women could have inductions from 28 weeks that pressure to decrease the termination cut off would increase dramatically c) that women would be pressured not to be induced becuase of the risks to the baby.

Rubirosa · 30/07/2012 21:49

I don't think anyone is "pro-abortion", how ridiculous.

I have a child. I willingly gave over my body for 9 months and grew him and birthed him and fed him and everything. But that was my choice. The only person who could make that choice about what was done to my body was me.

We don't need a limit on the number of weeks that you can have an abortion. Each individual woman is capable of making the decision for herself.

Lucyellensmum99 · 30/07/2012 21:50

"Setting the limit anywhere short of birth is saying that women are not the owners of their bodies and must submit to the control of men society because foetuses are more important than women."

But what if the foetus is a girl?? Hmm

You are all quite. mad

Original poster
VegansTasteBetter · 30/07/2012 21:50

Also I agree the "women hater" "sniveling superstitious idiot" comments are not helpful and also think they are the reason people avoid the feminist section. Which is a disappointment because preaching to the choir is fun but not particularly effective.

There have been a few posters who while I don't agree with them, explained their reasoning very well and I can see why they feel that way.

OP posts:
Margerykemp · 30/07/2012 21:53

As recently as 40 years ago in the UK it was not unheard of for severely disabled babies to be 'left to die' after birth in hospitals. The parents would be told it was a stillbirth/natural death but it was in fact infanticide/euthanasia.

There will be plenty of pensioners still around who did this but no one talks about opening a murder inquiry.

DuelingFanjo · 30/07/2012 21:54

I have had an abortion, a miscarriage and a baby - through IVF. I have always felt comfortable with my choice to have an abortion, will always remember the heartache of losing my much wanted baby and of course I am so grateful that I have my DC now.

I still believe that the woman's needs matter more than the unborn child's. I do not like the idea of late abortion but the evidence shows that late abortions very rarely happen. I am sure that all the women who choose to have an abortion late into pregnancy are not doing so lightly.

Original poster
VegansTasteBetter · 30/07/2012 21:54

The thing I also have problem is is that an elective abortion where the mother's life is not in danger is that it is technically an unnecessary medical procedure.

Surely the state is required to have some ethical debate if it is being asked to take part in such a procedure?

If you wanted your leg removed you would have to have a bloody good reason, you couldn't just say my body my choice. So why should this be any different?

OP posts:
Pumpster · 30/07/2012 21:54

So noone can answer what has been asked several times- why could the baby not be born alive at term rather than be aborted? It has to come out!

DuelingFanjo · 30/07/2012 21:58

"If you wanted your leg removed you would have to have a bloody good reason, you couldn't just say my body my choice. So why should this be any different?"

ok, so do you think that the very small amount of women having a late term abortion don't have a bloody good reason? Or do you think that this small amount of women are doing it just because they don't want a baby?

AnnieLobeseder · 30/07/2012 22:00

Ahem - those of you saying "you feminists".... I am a very passionate feminist. But I am arguing in favour of late foetal removal rather than abortion.

Please don't make comments like "and would put me off being a feminist if that was the criteria".

Why are you some of you not feminists. The only central tenant of feminism is that women deserve equal rights to men. The rest is details, debate and philosophy, and you will never meet any two women with absolutely the same opinion.

Pumpster · 30/07/2012 22:05

The woman know who had twins aborted at 27 weeks in the us, did so because her married lover had not been tempted to leave his wife due to her pregnancy so they were surplus to requirements.

I personally think she should have stuck it out and had them adopted. I understand her mental health is now very fragile and she got a very nasty infection afterwards-she had some explaining to do when she was treated a day she lied, said she had miscarried.

Pumpster · 30/07/2012 22:06

Sorry for typos, stupid tab

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