50 Shades and ignore if you have already discussed

[theodorakis]

I am so angry that this is being thrown around as a book. It is awfully written even if you discount the actual content. Why not re release Erica Jong and Simone de Beauvoir as wanky texts for people who never read books as well?
Frankly the sex is better and the writing may actually be enjoyable too.

janji - yes I should of! It was the only book I had on hols plus I thought it might get better. I was wrong!

Why not re release Erica Jong and Simone de Beauvoir as wanky texts for people who never read books as well?

If anyone thought that they would sell and make money then I'm sure they would.

I don't know what you mean by thrown around as a book. It is a book. It might not be a very good book, or one that is to your taste, but that doesn't mean it's not a book (and why thrown around?).

I don't really see what your post has to do with feminism - you are just complaining that a book you consider badly-written is popular.

You will find in life that quite often things that are not to your taste, or that you think are not very good (two different things!) are popular.

Actually, I do have an issue with the fact that this is 'being thrown around as a book', to do with the throwing around bit -

for example, in my local co-op it is for sale next to the counter, at waist level, lower than the sweets. In my local supermarket, you need to get past the 3 for £10 stands of this book to get into the shop.

I have an 8 year old daughter who is an avid reader. I don't go into these shops any more because I don't agree with soft porn, particularly that which is about control of women (but that is a separate issue), being on sale where any child can pick it up and read it. It is totally inappropriate, and I am no prude.

I seem to be in a minority of one on this issue though. I hate, hate, hate the fact that wherever I go, I see it - but all I can say is that my shopping is getting a lot more creative and I am using more small, independent retailers, which is a good thing.

Its not a very exciting cover though is it, not really the kind of book that a child would rush to pick up and nowhere on it does it say that it is soft porn. I know the content isn't child friendly but unless you're dd picked it up and read 5 or 6 chapters while you were paying she wouldn't have the foggiest what it was about. To feel so strongly about it that you boycott certain shops seems a bit ott imo.

I am reading them at the moment
They are hilariously badly written
I keep reading bits out to DH
The sex is a bit odd - since when was a man saying "this is going to be quick" a good thing????? And similar.
Not keen on the infliction of pain which she doesn't actually want. not keen at all.
Having said that I do want to know what happens next!
It really is trash.

The woman at school who lent it to me seems to be slightly in love with the main character and said she liked the normal sex bits but not the others. Maybe there is a gap in the market for softer core books for women? I suggested she try jackie collins or jilly cooper although I haven't read them myself apart from one going around the classroom with the "rude" bits marked

If you have't seen it, this is hilarious

Jilly Cooper always has much more story (and more horses).

Maybe it is OTT, but I do genuinely find it upsetting that a book with this content is promoted in this manner. If my local Co-op usually had books with the newspapers, maybe I would feel less strongly, but they don't. They don't even normally sell books.

They are selling this book because, for some unfathomable reason, sexual content with a woman in a submissive position is highly popular and they can make some money from it - though actually, put that way, it's not unfathomable, it is just depressing.

I don't know if it is the submissiveness that is popular?
My survey of one mum at the school gates indicated that that was the thing she didn't like.
Maybe it's popular because it's a book for women with lots of sex - how many of those are sold in asda? How many are so famous for having lots of sex. Aside from the obvious 80s ones I can't think of any.
Seeking out sexual content is I guess something a bit more that some women wouldn't do? But this book is "everyone's reading it" so it's fine?
I would have thought that people with an interest in bdsm would be reading stuff a lot more hardcore than this - TBH I have a book by that series is it black lace - whch is way way more extreme and I think it is one of their more popular books.

All in all this book is easy reading dross with repetitive sex and ridiculous characters but what I will say for it is it's difficult to put down. Mind you I have always been one of those people who has to find out what happens at the end of books.

What does the OP mean it is being "thrown about"?

People are choosing to buy it and then read it, that is their choice, how they choose to react to it whether it be positive or negative is again their choice?

They would release Erica Jong and Simone de Beauvoir if they thought it would sell.

Hi gnesher - it appears we are opinion twins :) (on this subject anyway)

I agree that people with an interest in BDSM will be reading more hardcore stuff, but I don't think that is the point. (though I hope I don't see that in Asda either)

It's not just a book for women with lots of sex, as I understand it. It's a book for women with lots of unequal sex, which normalises unequal power relations.

Oh yes absolutely summerflower the dynamics are totally worrisome.
She is coerced into doing things she doesn't want.
the dodgiest thing is that it keeps going on how powerful and in control she is when she goes down on him. Which is a peculiar message and one propagated by pro-porn pro-lapdancing types. The idea that when women are doing these things, despite all evidence to the contrary, it is empowering for them, and they are in control. It's nonsense.
Lots of other problematical stuff as well. Still it is so badly written what can you do but laugh? It's not terribly sexy. What with him always warning "this is going to be quick" n all!!!

I've read chunks of it. I nearly saw my breakfast again as I did so.

What disturbs me most is that you basically have an abusive relationship, played out on the pages, and women are crying out "I want that, too!".

I came across a saying once. "If you have to change who you are for a partner, you are in an abusive relationship." Sums this trilogy up perfectly.

I like the feminist version betterhere

This is uncomfortable, but I can't help pointing it out: it is women who have made this book a best-seller. Naturally feminists find it hideous, but the fact that so many other women don't agree must say something about women's outlook in general. A genuine desire to be dominated, or getting something out of one's system? I wonder if anyone at that Radical Feminism conference touched on it. Gail Dines might have had a lot to say, if she started looking at it.

This is uncomfortable, but I can't help pointing it out: it is women who have made this book a best-seller.

You are attributing far too much reading-between-the-lines to the majority of readers.

They are told that he is gorgeous, rich, caring, intelligent, and amazing in bed.

So they believe it. Even though the "caring and intelligent" parts are only told to us and not demonstrated in any way.

The narrator believes that he does everything that he does because he cares. The shallow reader (not that she is shallow herself, but that she is reading in a shallow manner) agrees.

What if women's desire to be dominated came first, and lead to the current state of society?

runs away

That's a red herring if ever there was one.

Well, I was playing devil's advocate. I do wonder if anyone has considered it though. Personally, I think the character's bazillion dollars in the bank plays a large part in making him attractive. I haven't read the books, but I wonder why the author didn't make him a bin-man, or a street-sweeper.

Have 3dds reading the trilogy and none have expressed any desire to enter the world of BDSM. One dd hadn't read a book in years (think the last one was A Boy Called David), so hopeful this may be a stepping stone to other reading matter.

Because if he was a bin man or a street sweeper he wouldn't be able to fly her around in a helicopter.

namechangeguy, I did realise that, but it was late - I think there are a number of possible ways of addressing your question, for example to look at the question of power and equality in sex historically, to look at whose interests are actually served by the dom/sub relationship personally and at a societal level (if you move away from the dynamics of an individual sexual relationship to wider social patterns) or to look at other forms of social organisation (i.e. matriarchal) and see whether you get those tendencies there.

The problem with the bazillion dollars in the bank is that it reflects gendered patterns of wealth more generally, which brings me back to the original point about power and equality.

But honestly, I am going round in circles here, and totally in vain. I honestly don't think, MsAnn Teak, that readers are going to rush into BDSM relationships, or as someone else suggested somewhere, enter behavioural contracts - but I do think you can modify your behaviour to suit a man and male social expectations, or assume a passive, subserviant role without doing those things. Not saying that every woman who reads this will do that, but it surely helps reinforce that position for women.

I'm curious to know how old your dd's are.

Summerflower, I don't think millions of women are going to rush into those relationships either. It's just interesting that this book has tapped in to something that is fundamentally appealing and sexually stimulating to these millions of women.

It is very interesting to see how feminism, fundamentally opposed as it is to the subjugation of women in any form, reconciles itself with these desires. Nobody is forcing anybody to read or buy the book. Indeed, women are recommending it to other women, and discussing it enthusiastically. There are no men involved, as far as I can see (except probably the publisher sat on a huge pile of cash). I don't know any man who has read it.

Summerflower, they range from 19 to 27. I wasn't suggesting you thought those reading 50Shades would rush into BDSM but there are those who see it as a slippery slope.
As part of our discussions we've covered females taking dominant roles in sex and not necessarily having to feel as if you have to be either passive, or submissive.