Diets, the weight loss industry and all that.

[GothAnneGeddes]

My Facebook is currently awash with the South Beach diet. Were my life to flash before my eyes, I'm sure there would be a surprisingly high amount spent listening to other people talk about diets.

It's shit. Self denial, foods being "naughty", eating being "bad", encouraging women to hate their bodies, crap science and it all seems to be more popular then ever and it fuels a billion pound industry.

And I think it's a massive example of the patriarchy at work and generally encouraging women to feel like lesser beings.

I thought exercise produced endorphins or something but it's been a long time since i did a level biology
pesky fruit flies

I guess that would be for a woman of average height - five five or so.

Under 80 cms (32inches) wasn't it?

Londoners being the thinnest.

chub, I find it really interesting that I came on this thread saying my GP told me to eat more, and your immediate response is to insist lots of people are in denial about how fat they are.

In a sense you are right - I and lots of women are in denial that they are perfectly healthy weights.

I don't deny obesity is a problem, but I don't honestly believe that it is a separate or separable problem from the whole unhealthy attitude towards our bodies that women are encouraged to have.

Here's a link

Lots of people are fat. Why you think I would disagree with your gps advice I have no idea. I have lost weight by cutting down on refined carbs and increasing my intake of lean protein and natural fats. That's how we're supposed to eat. I don't think I suggested that you should eat less, did I?

I am inclined not to trust a lot of the stats produced in these things. How can it be that the government is telling us that the place with the fattest children is London and yet London has the thinnest women?

Ok, I think I misread. I did think you were suggesting people on this thread were in denial, not in general.

I'm sorry.

I was thinking, too - we need to remember how enjoyable food should be. Nutritionally refined carbs are not good, but then maybe we enjoy them? In moderation that could be good.

There's merit to some of the stats, but only some. The big problem with them is they are always averaged and generalised, so often have very little baring for individual women which on the whole confuses the entire issue.

The average woman is supposed to have 2000 calories a day. And lots of food packaging displays this.

However most of us aren't average women. So the 2000 calories a day this is a complete load of nonsense and totally misleading.

As is a healthy waist measure of 80cm being appropriate for a women of 5' or 6'.

I'm not sure the evidence is clear that fat is the problem, at least in most cases. One study looked not just at BMI but at "healthy lifestyle habits": eating 5 or more fruits and vegetables daily, exercising regularly, consuming alcohol in moderation, and not smoking. For people with no healthy habits at all, those with BMI over 30 were more likely to die earlier. But for those with 2 or more healthy habits, there seems to be no link between BMI and life expectancy.

So being fat is bad if it's a symptom of an unhealthy lifestyle, but if you are fat but have a healthy lifestyle, perhaps it's not a problem at all. If so, then the emphasis should never be on losing weight, and in fact the emphasis on BMI is counterproductive as it makes people focus on doing anything they can to lose a stone, rather than choosing the healthiest lifestyle they can. Plus if the diet fails (most people regain weight within 5 years) then people feel discouraged and might give up on the healthy behaviors, when in fact the behaviors are far more important than the number on the scales.

I'm not an expert so I don't know if that study is representative or an outlier, but it seems hugely significant if true.

Oh refined carbs are delicious. White bread, yum yum. I just struggle with stopping .

Me too! And then I feel a bit bloated and not so good.

I suppose what I find a problem is, say I enjoy going to Coldplay concerts where the volume damages my ears. It's unlikely many people would argue Coldplay has lasting cultural or educational value. And eventually, listening to loud music will damage my hearing. But, say it's fun and I enjoy it (I really dont, btw). There's a value in that.

No-one talks about refined carbs like that - or indeed a lot of foods. They're not just something pleasant with the potential to contribute, slightly, to the gradual decline of our bodies ... they're a huge 'treat' and a 'guilty pleasure', or they're awful.

That's the sort of attitude I'm tryng to shake off because I do fall prey to it. I wish I didn't and I know loads of women don't, but that message is out there.

I don't even think of refined carbs as being bad. I just think of them as staples. I would never consider white pasta, bread or rice to be a guilty pleasure. It is just what most people eat in the UK.

I don't think of them as bad, they're a cheap source of important nutrients. But lots of people eat more of them than is good for them, with a corresponding impact on health and weight. I agree labelling some foods as good or bad is not helpful.

I haven't noticed any public health campaign against them. I assumed they were fine to eat as long as you were getting enough fruit and veg for fibre.

Obviously it's not good to think of foods as 'good' and 'bad'.

OTOH, it's still a problem that if you're not well off, stuff like white bread is much more affordable than wholemeal multi-grain. That matters, and the rhetoric of the diet industry is about spending money, so part of them going on about white bread or whatever is done because it's cheap, not just because you might lose weight if you don't eat it and instead eat steak.

Given women tend to be disproportionately poor, this seems like a pretty big feminist issue.

Well I have read a lot about how the nutritional advice we have had since the 1970s demonising fat and emphasising carbs has contributed to the rise of obesity. But that could be all wrong too, I'm not a nutritionist.

I know I'm going off the point of this thread and into a personal gripe, but I've getting to the point with health/diet where I just no longer care. Everything is supposedly bad for you, and I know that is a cliche, but...

Meat: eating meat gives you a much increased risk of cancer and heart diseases.
Cheese, cream etc: full of saturated fat. Bad for you.
White bread, pasta etc: Diabetes.
Fruit: full of sugar. Has some dangerous impact on your organs, possibly your liver, can't remember.
Eggs: heart disease
Soya and some other beans: mimic oestrogen. Birth defects. Infertility.
Non organic veg: birth defects in boys.

And it isn't just a question of poverty. I don't want to eat brown rice and veg all the time. I don't know anybody who does eat whole grains and veg a lot. I'm not fat, my kids aren't fat, but we probably do eat an unhealthy diet. They've gone into school today with juice, fruit, flavoured yoghurt and a beef sandwich. So that is diabetes + diabetes + diabetes + cancer. But at least it was on wholemeal bread.

Actually, you know something I find disgusting?

The UK saw a pretty quick to industrialization, from cottage industries. There's a theory this may be partly why we took to convenience foods faster than, say, France. But certainly, there's a health impact to doing things like night shifts, and there's a health impact if you can't afford the time to cook cheap protein and instead end up with lots of stuff like cheese and carbs - and these are things that suit a lifestyle where the person who cooks dinner is no longer working inside the home and cooking a meal, but rushing between shifts. Stuff like cheese and cheap carbs also contributes to obesity.

I have seen so many stupid articles about how it's rubbish that you can't cook good healthy food on a tight budget by people who assume everyone who cooks has hours of free time. It totally ignores the fact that women so often are the ones lumbered with doing shiftwork, juggling that with childcare, and trying to fit cooking dinner into a very short time.

If we're angry about dieting, we should be angry that it's cheap to blame women for obesity when the causes are part of the system that oppresses women.

But diet products aren't exactly cheap...

Shirley I notice your link has the obligatory picture of an overweight person without a head. Documentaries about obesity are full of them too, whilst thin 'experts' with heads get to talk to the camera. It's so stigmatising, overweight people are just shown as bodies to be discussed by everyone else. I doubt many of the photographs were taken with permission. The photos are never flattering: the subjects would probably look lovely if photographed smiling with nice clothes, but instead we are shown pictures of their arses whilst they're rushing down the street wearing trainers and jeans - not a photography style that would flatter anyone. The words are about health, pretending that this whole article is helpful to overweight people, but the pictures tell us the underlying media narrative, which is that overweight people are ugly, a problem to society, and not really proper people who might have personalities and opinions.

I am sitting in the garden, have just had a massive fish salad for lunch, a bread roll a glass of fizzy water and then a bowl of strawbs and cream. Yum!
I eat well & enjoy it. Yet I have started to write down what I eat & the calories consumed ( my fitness pal) it is amazing how quickly the Cals add up.)!
Just a glass of wine and a few olives can be 300 Cals or mote. Biscuits, juice etc can up the number of calories massively.
I think because we are all so busy these days we don't really think about the food we eat, we are tired, it's tasty and we pop it in our mouths.
Yesterday I had a packet of seeds with chili flavour....all those seeds must be good! I found they were 500 calories good.
I am not overweight, yet I notice the odd pound or three can creep on if I don't watch it. Consequently have decided the only way to stay the shape I am and a size I'm happy with is to be on the ball about what I eat. I guess it should in theory easy, but I doubt it will be.

hmm - of course diet products aren't cheap. That's how the industry makes money.

Being thin has become a sign of wealth, hasn't it?

But it's not just diet products - ordinary healthy food is quite expensive IMO, it usually demands either time or money or knowledge, and ideally all three.

This is why I find Jamie Oliver so annoying -he has a good message, but he assumes everyone has as much time and money and knowledge as him.

I kind of agree with you lrd, but push that train of thought a little further and you seem to be forced to the conclusion that it would be better if all women were in the home slow cooking from scratch. I'd rather not.