do you believe in the patriarchy?

[bejeezusWC]

A poster on another thread said she views feminism as the struggle against patriarchy. That is how I view it too. I believe that is considered the rad fem stance?

Another poster said she didn't believe in patriarchy

I don't geddit

Why/how are women so unequal if not for patriarchal societies? WHO has been oppressing us?

Please tell me what you think, if you don't believe in patriarchy

Evo Psych is supposition, the patriarchy is real. Yes, I still believe in it because I see it, hear about it, read about it, live it. Evo-babble not so much.

Anyway, we are grown up enough to have a think about stuff, aren't we? So, we have a situation where men rule the world (and making a mighty fine job of doing so). Is this just the natural order? If so, I can see why you're on here arguing with feminists. If not, do you think we should do something about it?

hehehehe @ fish fingers vs the patriarchy

Religious institutes would be another thing on my hit list. They uphold the patriarchy and add to the oppression of women.

With you on that AbigailAdams.

Vashti -

It's a straight forward question -
Nothing to do with fish fingers.

-evo psych is the idea that inherited aspects of human behaviour and traits were shaped by evolution, and that this can be studied.

Is this compatible or incompatible with the theory of The Patriarchy (= that what we observe in the world in relation to men and women is obviously due to global political system(s) put in place and sustained by men, for the good of men as a group due to their belief in male supremacy)?

I don't think they are.

The underlying assumptions of the theory of The Patriarchy seems to be that: people tend to act in their own self interest, or for their group, based on their beliefs, unless someone else oppresses them.

(which are fair enough assumptions before we understood evolution better - i am not saying they are stupid or anything - they have underpinned much tradition social science and work well on a day to day basis).

Evolutionary psychology says something quite surprising and unintuitive - that human instincts and tendencies that were inherited can not be explained because they were good for the species, the group or even the individual, but because the behaviour they caused led to the spread and perseverance of copies of that gene.

If it is true it means that the assumption that people (unless misled, conditioned, oppressed etc...) tend to act in their own rational self interest or for their group, turns out to be false.

Rulers - I don't think there is a "natural order" - as in that which is natural must be good.

Dittany -

This to to me is the theory - that what we observe in the world in relation to men and women (history, the status quo etc...) is due to global political system(s) (= The Patriarchy) put in place and sustained by men, for the good of men as a group due to their belief in male supremacy.

Is that an a roughly accurate summary?

The "theory" of patriarchy. Why do you keep saying this?

Would you rather another term is used for the reality of fucking over women across the world and across time?

I didn't imply you thought that natural was good. I asked if you thought there was a natural order.

I don't find that surprising or counter-intuitive.

I perceive interesting connections between the evolution of the brain/mind/nervous system and the problems we face in present times. I seriously can't go into it all with one post (and don't claim to have 'answers') but am happy to continue discussing it.

Long story MUCH too short - The way I see it is: through the course of developments that have been mentioned here, we came as a social species to admire the "reptilian" properties of the human mind, which are simple. Feed, fuck, fight, flee. This supposition makes sense from an evolutionary point of view, especially when you consider that behaviour tends to lag a long way behind capacity. As humans had apportioned more value to men than to women - quite possibly as a consequence of agriculturalism - we came also to ascribe these primitive qualities to men. In fact, we all have them.

Because we became a social animal some time after being reptiles, our 'higher' brains drive us to go along with the tribe, follow the leader and observe the hierarchy. This was a necessity for survival. So, in my short version, we've ended up with societies that attribute basic acquisitive, aggressive and protective urges to men and value them more than we value other human qualities.

The bulk of the human brain is made of new stuff, some of which isn't even seen in other apes (yet). The 'new' brain is capable of extremely fine processing and of choosing to override the primitive - although the primitive is faster, hence concepts like self-control. We've had this fantastically flexible, sophisticated piece of equipment, capable of incredible wisdom, compassion, creativity, strength and learning, for most of human existence but are still getting the hang of using it.

I do believe women and men can accelerate our sophistication and leave the 'reptile-based' structures behind. There is immense will to do so, although it's expressed in disparate ways.

I'm interested in neuropsychology, btw, which you can't really look at without considering evolution.

No I don't think there is a 'natural order'. I think everything is natural.

Hah. Well put, Dittany.

ffs, you're a wriggler. Is male dominance in the form that it currently takes natural?

Dittany -

So 1) is this an accurate description of a strand of feminist thinking about the patriarchy;

That the world's social, economic and political systems have been put in place and are sustained by men, for the good of men as a group due to their belief in male supremacy.

Is there a shorthand for that?

Dittany -

Ok so I don't agree with the Feminist Theory of the Patriarchy. I do consider myself a feminist in that I think women should have full and equal human rights.

No I don't think the patriarchy is an entity.

Himalaya. Patriarchy is a value system which favours men at the expense of women.

It's pervasive.
You can see in action down your local pub right now, if they have a late license.
Switch the news on and you'll see it in action all over the world.

Patriarchy also favours white men over men of other shades, heterosexual men over gays, disfavours the disabled and so on. These are aspects of patriarchy but not its outstanding quality: which is that it always favours whom it favours at the expense of women.

"I don't think the patriarchy is an entity"

It's a concept, you wally

pile of shite

For whatever reason the world is how it currently is. Every day of our entire existence From the moment we climbed down from the trees was only one day different from the day before, and this is where it has brought us.

We can all imagine worlds that are better, more to our liking, and we can all in our own way try to steer the course of humanity in the direction we want it to go.

Other people have their own ideas of how they want the world to be, and some of those people might want a completely different world to the one we want.

The universe doesnt take sides, so all anyone can do is argue and push for the world they want as best they can, and hope that the majority go their way.

Doesn't that about sum it all up?