do you believe in the patriarchy?

[bejeezusWC]

A poster on another thread said she views feminism as the struggle against patriarchy. That is how I view it too. I believe that is considered the rad fem stance?

Another poster said she didn't believe in patriarchy

I don't geddit

Why/how are women so unequal if not for patriarchal societies? WHO has been oppressing us?

Please tell me what you think, if you don't believe in patriarchy

oh and people like you could stop slagging them off at every available opportunity on mn and propogating lies about the quality of life their children have. personally i'd find that a good start.

Him - Could you answer my question?

I think we're just beginning to take some steps away from being a patriarchal society. If a couple split up for example custody is more often given to the mother, whereas this was not the case in the past where the children were at one time more "owned" by the father.

I sometimes think if we imagine looking back on now from a couple of hundred years in the future we can see how we've only just taken some baby steps towards equality, and see how "old-fashioned" and patriarchal our society - and our lives - actually are.

children are not 'given' to the mother. they're not property and it isn't a simple reversal that has happened. what has happened is that the interests of the children are considered and consistency is valued therefore staying with the parent who has been the primary caretaker. that primary caretaker could be male or female depending on the choices that family made. sorry not meant as snippy just the likes of f4j phrase it that way and it irks.

very baby steps in my opinion juggling and they're being clawed back at every available opportunity - such as using the economic climate to hit women hard.

yes, yes, no, yes, yes. DH has a disability, DS has SN, brought up by a loan parent. OK for ya?

Thanks Him. I don't think it invalidates your arguments. Its just interesting to note that actually you are more privileged that most or maybe all the rad fems on here.

No, good points saf even if I did feel slightly misquoted

• not a simple reversal more proper concern and respect for children's well-being (Also more respect for women as mothers too I feel)

The whole idea of "granting custody" and the talk around that is rather old-fashioned isn't it ? Hardly respectful to any of the people concerned in the family's web of relationships. To be fair I don't know how much such phrases are used these days.

"Lack of intersectionality in feminism (and other movements too, if you explored them) is a huge issue"

No, it's not. All intelligent feminists are totally aware of how oppressions intersect. They still think women's rights shouldn't be at the back of the queue though, behind all the other rights that need to be fought for.

People want to believe that feminists are unaware of any other oppression, so that they can portray them as wild eyed obsessives who only see one problem. Nope, it doesn't fly.

This "feminists don't recognise any other oppression" bollocks, is the twin brother of "feminists are allowed to talk about women in Saudi and Afghanistan where nasty foreign men oppress them, but STFU about men here".

I agree with Basil.

Most of the feminists I know are very mindful of intersectionality.

I guess because the politics of oppression have a pattern, and once you get that pattern for one thing (misogyny for example), you can then apply that understanding to other areas (racism, classism, ableism), etc. Also I think it makes you mindful of your own privilege, and especially mindful of how oblivious we are to so much of our privilege.

Of course it goes without saying that feminists are people just like everybody else and some of us suffer multiple oppressions.

yep and gender inequality and oppression is the first template - it predates the others.

Basil - If feminism is absolutely so marvellous at intersectionality why does a movement called Womanism exist and why does a term called colonial feminism exist?

WTF is "Womanism"?

And Colonial Feminism? I've heard of post-colonial feminism

GAG, those are examples of intersectionality.

Womanism has certainly existed for my whole life time, so intersectionality is hardly a new idea within feminism.

Interestingly, Wikipedia's opening line under 'intersectionality' is:

'Intersectionality is a feminist sociological theory first highlighted by Kimberlé Crenshaw (1989)'

Off to google Amanda Marcotte.

Thank you for clearing that up about colonial feminism, Dittany.

tsk don't you realise the bar is much higher for women? we have to be sugar and spice and all things nice. we've evolved like that.

I didn't realise that is where it came from. I have only ever seeen it mentioned in , what about the men or Trans threads, so assumed wrongly that it came from men.

Why don't you do your own research rather than taking dittany's word for it?

you're not carrying that chip on your shoulder very subtly ES.

It doesn't involve any research. It is on wikipedia.