Quitting my job, moving to suburbs, having a 2nd kid… help save me from becoming a Stepford Wife!

[SkaterGrrrrl]

Ok now that my flippant thread title has your attention, let me back-pedal a bit! I don?t think SAHMs / women who live outside cities / mothers of two are Stepford Wives. But I am a bit worried about this move and what it will mean for my career and my sense of self as a person and a feminist.

A friend pointed out to me that this is a good move for my family, my husband and for SkaterGrrrl-the-Mother, but advised me to make sure I hold onto SkaterGrrrl the person.

What I am asking for is advice on how retain a bit of the old me, despite the big change in my circumstances and my life becoming more centred on home and family.

Where are you moving to? Just being nosy .....

Bonsoir As it happens mine is a contribute-to-society, feel-good-about-yourself-job ? but I do think there is a satisfaction to be had from working for its own sake, regardless of what you do, the purpose, dignity and reason to get up in the morning which one hears retired people lamenting.

Xenia that?s a good suggestion although I?m not very business minded, it would certainly be an option for another woman in my situation. I do lots of copywriting/ web based content/ editing so could do something from home or go freelance or part time. This thread had made me want to get working again after a year?s maternity instead of taking 3 years.

Colditz and Mrskbpw ? just where SW London becomes Surrey. So it is commutable to London, just not to my current job, hence the plan to take maternity and then look for a job closer to home.

While not wishing to turn this into a suburb bashing thread (my question is not so much ?will I find like-minded people in the suburbs? and more ?how do I keep my identity when I have another baby, am no longer working and have moved far away from my current feminist support network?); I am fascinated by Himalaya?s analysis of what makes the suburban set up tick.

The suburbs are depicted as a lonely or stifling place for women (I?m thinking of The Hours) because the deal seems to be the wife trades her job/independence for a house and garden for the benefit of the children. The man isn?t stifled as he visits the city every day for work and socialising.

Look at peopleperhour website as you can bid for work on there for copyright and production of web based content.

(Huge numbers of women commute from suburbs to work in the City by the way and some leave husbands behind doing the dishes).

I moved from a vibrant little market town where I knew the local shopkeepers/librarians/societies etc to the suburbs.

I hate it. I have to drive everywhere, I have tried to get to know the neighbours to little avail. The local shops are no go areas in the evenings and I feel cut off, isolated and very, very bored.

I hate the souless house and empty daytime streets and wish we had stayed in the smaller house where I could step out of the front door onto the High Street or walk five minutes to the river and countryside, fab little pubs and restaurants and always bump into someone I know for a chat.

I would swap the house and bigger garden any day.

Why do people always say they are moving to the suburbs 'for the sake of the kids'? As a child I hated growing up in the suburbs. It was all houses and nothing to do. Hardly any busses so being dependent on taxi-mum. Friends houses a drive rather than a walk away. Few sweetie shops or parks.

I'm purposely raising DCs in the city so they can have freedom and amenities close by. Popping in and out of friends houses is easy. They are never short of things to do. It might mean living in a flat but it means work and school are all close by so more family time together than anyone in the burbs will ever get. Kids grow out of gardens so quickly I don't think it's worth such a huge sacrifice.

Margerykemp - some people are under the illusion that children's childhood is best spent in a culture-free zone where they can stay naïve about the ways of the world as long as possible.

I don't agree at all with this.

I'm not sure if suburbs are different in other cities, but I live in the suburbs of London - zone 5.

It's definitely not a culture-free zone - it's 20 minutes on the train to London Bridge, a fraction longer into the West End. Nor is it all houses - there are masses of shops, libraries, leisure centres, theatres, cinemas etc.

Public transport is excellent, because we are part of London - I grew up nearby and as soon as I was old enough to get myself places I never got lifts from my parents. We all got trains and buses to secondary school - I don't remember anyone who was driven by their parents.

BUT, I know all our neighbours and could/would call on them in a crisis. There are loads of parks and green spaces round the corner. We had a choice of three good primary schools for my son.

It's the best of both worlds, really. I work in Soho and my commute is about 45 minutes, door to door, but we have a nice house, a garden, and things we wouldn't have had if we'd stayed in inner London.

OP - my best friend lives in Sutton - is that close to you? She's very happy there and has met lots of like-minded friends. It's got v good transport links, so I'm sure you could find a job that was easily accessible. It's also got loads of stuff going on - would you consider volunteering? Or joining local groups? Do you have any hobbies?

Ditto. Best of all worlds. Quick into London. Huge detached house, acre of grounds. You get nothing like that in central Paris or Central London, countryside not far, air ports not far, horses go by. Lots to be said for it.

Middlesex (Betjeman)

Gaily into Ruislip Gardens
Runs the red electric train,
With a thousand Ta?s and Pardon?s
Daintily alights Elaine;
Hurries down the concrete station
With a frown of concentration,
Out into the outskirt?s edges
Where a few surviving hedges
Keep alive our lost Elysium ? rural Middlesex again.

Well cut Windsmoor flapping lightly,
Jacqmar scarf of mauve and green
Hiding hair which, Friday nightly,
Delicately drowns in Drene;
Fair Elaine the bobby-soxer,
Fresh-complexioned with Innoxa,
Gains the garden ? father?s hobby -
Hangs her Windsmoor in the lobby,
Settles down to sandwich supper and the television screen.

Gentle Brent, I used to know you
Wandering Wembley-wards at will,
Now what change your waters show you
In the meadowlands you fill!
Recollect the elm-trees misty
And the footpaths climbing twisty
Under cedar-shaded palings,
Low laburnum-leaned-on railings
Out of Northolt on and upward to the heights of Harrow hill.

Parish of enormous hayfields
Perivale stood all alone,
And from Greenford scent of mayfields
Most enticingly was blown
Over market gardens tidy,
Taverns for the bona fide,
Cockney singers, cockney shooters,
Murray Poshes, Lupin Pooters,
Long in Kensal Green and Highgate silent under soot and stone

Xenia . That poem is not an ode to suburbia...

Don't mind those scathing little digs about housewives, SkaterGrrrl. You will find that some people are well able to find fulfillment without the stick / carrot approach of externalities such as pay packets/vigilant bosses.

(Not that I am one of those people myself!)

I am in a similar situation to you. It's a good thing that you haven't resigned, asyou will have time to sample the reality before you make a decision. I would urge you to keep your hand in some way, in some sort of work.

Skatergrrrl

Suburbs can be the best of both worlds if that is what you are after.

Two more things to think about:

1. suburbs have suburbs - most suburbs are/were small towns/villages in their own right and have their own character. Pick one you like, not just for transport convenience. Neighbourhoods closer to the centre are more urban, walkable, ethnicly and socially mixed. The suburbs of the suburbs are worse for isolation and stepfordiness.

2. don't move to suburbs, have 2+ kids and then make decisions based on maximising family income. Unless you already earn a good deal more than you DH Xenia-style that is how the suburbs trap women as they are set up for one commuter families ( e.g. It costs more for one person to commute or 3 days and the other for 2 than it does for one person to commute 5 days a week). But I think if you move with the plan to make decisions to optimise LT family earning power and happiness then you can make the suburbs work for you.

A lot depends on the suburb.

We moved to the suburb of a suburb of a commuter town. I did not manage to maintain my sense of self. We did not fit in that community and I was miserable and trapped.

So we moved to an inner suburb of the city. We have everything we want here. It has been easy to make friends with like minded neighbours, my career is back on track and it is ideal for the dc.

Our current house is much smaller than our old one but that trade off has been well worth it.

(Bonsoir, I think he liked the suburbs. He might be a bit snobbish about secretaries on the tube, but he wasn't suggesting they were wrong. He was just descibring what he saw, happy people in much nicer lives than when they lived cramped in London without green fields).

(Can't you share an oyster card - to the person who said commuting costs for one 5 days a week are cheaper than for two where one goes in 3 days and one 2?)

I would look on it as a positive move. Life is what you make it. You do have to be proactive-if you want to start a book group start one. I have moved, not so long ago,I couldn't find what I wanted so I started 2 different groups-it takes a while to establish but once you are started it grows. There are masses of things that you can do in the voluntary sector-and use a wide variety of skills.
I would say it is liberation to get out of London and reinvent yourself anyway you want. Paid employment is a small part of life-not the meaning of it.(if you have enough to be comfortable and pay the bills). Start a business, get additional qualifications, add to your CV.
There are like minded people in the suburbs but you won't find them if you alienate them in the first place by thinking they are Stepford wives! (if there are any they are fairly easy to avoid because I manage it).

I would, however, research your suburb first.

maintain work contacts,email etc
maintain cpd keep informed relevant work related developments etc
do some open uni
can you do any projects or work at home to keep hand in

enjoy your mat leave but plan your return to work

There's plenty of green in London. Big parks that people really do use, conservation areas. We don't have a single house behind us, all we can see is sky. So nice.

It's weird how it can be more claustrophobic even with more space, for some that is.

Yes it depends on how you define suburbs. Is it zone 4 and outwards people are talking about?

Xenia - your interpretation of Betjeman's poems might suit your own feelings, but it is far from the commonly accepted one. They are lamenting lost rural beauty to culturally impoverished lower middle class values.

There is plenty of green in Paris too - certainly where we live the roads are broad and tree-lined and our local park is truly beautiful and a fantastic place for all the children to play together in safety. And - something that I really appreciate - children can get around on their own on public transport/scooter to school, tennis, swimming etc from a young age (10-ish). The chauffeuring years don't last long.

We're in zone 5/6. Some women are a bit stepfordy but many are not. We have a big house and garden, brilliant schools, great sense of community, huge green spaces on our doorstep, yet are only 20 mins train ride into waterloo. I love it.

Central, low-crime, tree lined areas of big cities with nice parks and good schools nearby tend to be expensive though. People tend to move to the suburbs not because they don't realise these areas exist it is because they can't afford to live there and swing a cat.