Who is for equal parenthood?

[Himalaya]

(this comes off the other equality thread but wanted to start it as a Q in it's own right).

So much of the inequality between men and women in society comes down to the structures and assumptions that push us in such different direction when we become parents together, and it starts with maternity leave.

Sooooo.... Here is my manifesto.

1. 1 months maternity leave for women giving birth.
2. 6 months parental leave for new parents to be taken anytime in first 3 years (with some flexibility for both employer and employee) . An individual employment benefit/right - non transferable.
3. Redesign school hours and terms and wrap around childcare to fit modern lifestyles rather than harvestime and mothers as main carers.
4. build/retrofit cities so that affordable housing, good schools and commercial centres are close together.
5. free chocolate

Does anyone go for that? Is there any county like that?

Would you support a cut in female maternity leave and an equalisation of parental leave?

Athinginyourlife.

I don't mean to insult you at all.

I have had a CS and a vaginal birth, one was much harder to recover from than the other. But one didn't make me more of a mother than the other.

Some women have more traumatic births, medical complications etc... and may need more time off. But it doesn't mean that all women need that much time off for recovery.

I don't see why there can't be a standard amount of birth time off (... lets say 2 months) plus extra if the dr says you need it, then a standard amount of time for parental leave.

Why should fathers with SAHPs have a different entitlement to PL than fathers with working partners?

Employment entitlements like holiday and sick leave shouldn't be different because you are a man or a woman, because you are married or single, or because of choices your partner makes, they should be entitlements that are not applied in a sexist way. Parental leave fails on this account.

I thought part of the point of feminism is that policies shouldn't be applied in a discriminatory fashion between men and women because of factors which only effect some women.

Has anyone taken an employer to court for paying women on maternity leave full salary and men only SPP?

I find this stuff really interesting. Dh and I decided not to go for baby no 3. because essentially dh would have had to finacially take the 2nd six months ( he was SAHD at the time). Tbh it would have broken my heart to go back to work ft leaving a six month old with dh who just wouldn't have enjoyed it. Dh is a wonderfully involved dad who has been SAHP ,but he is just not hard wired to care for a tiny infant the way I am. Probably because he doesn't go through pregnancy and breast feeding.

I consider myself a feminist and enjoy going to work and earning my own money, indeed I have greater earning potential than dh. But I just do not think forcing men in to being at home with tiny babies is doing anyone any favors.

Plenty of men are much more up to the task than naughtym's husband. The fact he may not be up to scratch with babies does not mean other men aren't. You just have to give them a chance. I went back to work full time at 2 weeks and it worked wonderfully well and ensured there was no sexism in the relationship at all and the baby could bond with its mother and father equally.

No one is talking about forcing men to be home. We are just saying that the change in the law now happening (see A Asthana's article p30 of today's Times about all this) is a very good thing. Of course most women stupid enough to be sexistm relationships will continue to do the lion's share of the dull dross home and cleaning and childrare stuff and men will swan off to earn money but some women will find it easier through the changes to make a case that the man stays home or neither will be home which is fine too.

Fomr 2015 the period of maternity leave falls to 18 weeks snd after that it's parental leave for either parent. For those of us who earn reasonable sums of money it remains 6 weeks at 90% pay and thereafter virtually zilch so in effect it remains the case that if you both need your wage it is only 6 weeks you get it with most employers and that's fine. The state by the way pays the maternity pay. After the 18 weeks the rest of the time off if parents want it can be split and 4 weeks can be together if they want.

Also the article says 44% of women earn more than their man ( I earned 10x more) and 77% of women do return to work whint 12 - 18 months despite popular myths to the contrary.

This is one of the most misogynistic OPs I have ever read. I agree with every word AThing has said. I'm very surprised to learn that you have children Himalaya.

yes school hours should be reconfigured to suit working parents
1 month mat leave,would that be statutory?it's v short. would there be sanctions if more than 1mth taken?

Its funny how views on this topic are poles apart. I think all himalyas posts are constructive and well thought out. This one included.

I find the opposing view sexist and impractical.

anyway, I have hired a small castle for some weekends entertainment, I will have to leave this well trodden ground to others.

not so many clustered holidays
semesterisation, reduce length summer holiday
breakfast and after school club all schools

v interesting
how is semesterisation received?

I didn't know about the law changing Xenia. Got a link not behind the paywall?

A month minimum to be taken by the mother only is reasonable as the mother needs to recover physically from the pregnancy.

The amount of subsequent parental leave that is then available to be shared between the two partners should be 17 months, and it should be possible to weight it in favour of one or other parent or between both parents equally with a maximum disparity of 2:1 i.e. one parent can't take more than twice what the other parent is taking.

There should be no presumption that a female parent will have more parental leave than a male one, the balance should be for each individual couple to decide.

The amount of subsequent parental leave that is then available to be shared between the two partners should be 17 months, and it should be possible to weight it in favour of one or other parent or between both parents equally with a maximum disparity of 2:1 i.e. one parent can't take more than twice what the other parent is taking.

So a child who is born to a household where both parents need or choose to work with two employed parents gets the potential for 18 months of time spent with one of their parents (assuming finances allowed) whereas a child with one parent who is self-employed would only get a maximum 12 months with one of their parents due to the 2:1 balance that you are suggesting.

I think it is more straightforward to say that parental pay/leave beyond the initial medical maternity leave (let's say 2 months) is offered equally to all employees (including enhanced parental pay) - self employed getting Statuatory parental pay..

Don't make it transferable - holiday allowances and tax relief aren't.

That's why I think it shouldn't be transferable. Use it or loose it parental leave on an individual basis. Like annual leave.

it's tricky - how would an employer or the government decide who qualifies for 'paternal' leave? if you get a woman pregnant then bugger off can you get paid time off work after she has the baby if you don't even see it? do you have to be resident with the child? or just have access? how much access? i can't see how it can be policed?

in the current case of parental leave for men (or women for that matter) do they have to 'prove' they have a child? and care for it? [i'm self employed so i know nothing about these things]

If your name is on the birth certificate.

But if it's not transferable it makes no difference to the mothers maternity leave whatever the father chooses to do.

I think transferable maternity leave is a bad idea. Employment rights should not be transferable.

"There should be no presumption that a female parent will have more parental leave than a male one, the balance should be for each individual couple to decide."

Female parent?

Male parent?

Don't you mean "mother" and "father"?

If I'm just going to be a "female parent", just the same as a "male parent", I want the male parent to do half of the gestation, because TBH I find pregnancy a real drag.

I think since we're all being biologically "equal" that the male parent should get his abdomen sliced open.

And I'm fucked if I'm doing all the lactation this time. No reason a "male parent" couldn't do that.

lactation doesn't define or make good parent
given most mums don't bf,and certainly not beyond 6wk what's your point
good parent multifaceted, is not lactation specific

I agree with vezzie even though am self employed and have started work earlier it's on my terms with minimal childcare.
What about a six day business week? Ty to.better wrap around care