been musing, about breasts and underwear.

[NeverKnowinglyUnderstood]

why do we wear bra's?
is there genuine personal benefit for a woman's welbeing to have them strapped in?
I was thinking about the lesser clothes peoples of the world and they seem to be totally at ease with breastshape and shape change over the life of a woman.]

Now, I have huge boobs, I strap them down so I don't knock out passing motorists when walkign down the street. Hwoever it is more comfortable for me to not be strapped in. It is only for other people that I wear one.

Looking young and pert would be great if I was young and pert but wouldn't that just genuinely look wierd on an 80 year old?

don't really know where I am going with this, just musing if anyone wants to chip in.

I even sleep in a bra, I can't bear to be without. I'm actually quite small because I'm very small everywhere.

I feel more dignified wearing a bra and I would feel very conscious of people looking if I didn't wear a bra.

i have often wondered how women in tradiational tribal societies managed to run around without a bra.. or even how they dance energetically... i could NOT run or jiggle around without a sports bra... but i wonder if i am 'fat' compared to the women i'm thinking of.. i am a size 12-14 and 34DD chest..

for me wearing a bra is a feminist liberation - sports bras allow me to participate in traditionally male passtimes like marathon running, martial arts and mountain biking without 'feminine' discomfort.

I'm a B cup and I'm all for the burning of our bras: but it hurts to go bra-less. I have no idea if that's down to wearing a bra since I was 15 (last one in the class - the shaming I got for being in a vest at 15!) or whether I have sensitive boobskin or what.

I sure as shit wouldn't run without a sports bra. I went riding without one on once and owwwwwch!

I missed Tia's post first time round. It's true, bra-wearing should be optional and it's not.

Even if it didn't hurt I don't know if I could really ditch the bra - I know that having visible nipples as I went about my daily business would just lead to a day of staring, comments, etc.

I used to be an A/B cup, and after being marched to the bra-fitters as a teen always wore bras, albeit pretty flimsy ones (small sized bras were often flimsy in those days). Anyway, when I was 21 I spent the summer in a really hot place and ditching the bra made me so much cooler, so I did . Didn't wear one again regularly till I was pregnant at 31. In fact, I'd thought I probably wouldn't bother with nursing bras.

Then, ouch ouch ouch. I couldn't bear not to wear a bra as my nipples were so sensitive. It also of course held the breast pads - and sometimes the cabbage leaves - and was a marginal help in stopping me feeling like I had overinflated and very sore balloons strapped on.

Post-breastfeeding, I'm afraid I haven't gone back to braless, as I'm a bit bigger and floppier than I was, so not as comfortable, and my nipples are, ahem, rather lumpy .

In my 10 years or so of bralessness I guess people noticed, but rarely commented or stared. Mind you, I think that, although uncommon, it wasn't quite as rare as now.

I think it has to do more with bra size than body weight, as much as fat is often a cause for increased breast size their are many extremely overweight women with quite small chests I doubt going without a bra would cause them physical discomfort, plus breast size is largely genetic. E.g a size 20 + with a a/b cup probably wouldn't be hugely affected by going braless.

I'm a 38G and I was a 36DD before my DC and now I have to wear a bra everywhere even in my sleep its just too uncomfortable to go without. plus it would be unsightly and would feel like I'm 'flapping around' eurgh*.

I have a relative with special needs who refused to wear a bra for years and is now grotesquely saggy and isn't even of an age where you'd expect it. Wearing a nighty around visitors etc is a complete no-no as its noticable past the boundaries of decent. as horrible as it sounds its true. So just from that I think going bra less can cause issues,yes.

Bras make no difference to your breasts sagging. That is why you don't see it claimed in bra adverts in the UK; sports bra manufacturers used to make this claim but they were stopped by the ASA.

I didn't wear a bra until I started breastfeeding. My 36DD breasts have not really sagged and I'm nearly 40. Not that I'm saying not wearing a bra stops your breasts from sagging! Just that it is a matter of luck.

I do think it is more comfortable to run in a sports bra. But bra wear the rest of the time for me is about a beauty standard. I don't wear a bra if I'm in the house.

I suspect if you grow up not wearing a bra, you get used to it and you would find wearing a bra uncomfortable. In the same way those brought up wiithout wearing shoes find shoes incredibly restricting.

I wear a bra and have large breasts. But tbh I do find comments such as - I have to wear a bra otherwise when I run for a bus I would get 2 black eyes - as a bit self hating. Its not remotely true and not funny, but very self insulting and mocking of your breasts.

Sorry I wouldn't have said this if it wasn't on the feminism board, but I do think it is a feminist issue

"But tbh I do find comments such as - I have to wear a bra otherwise when I run for a bus I would get 2 black eyes - as a bit self hating. Its not remotely true and not funny, but very self insulting and mocking of your breasts."

One of my friends has large enough boobs that she has been hit in the face by them when running without a bra.

Yes hit in the face maybe - but not 2 black eyes.

It is predictable that if women talk about not wearing a bra, someone always says "I'd be giving myself black eyes". One wonders how this lady managed to be running fast enough to slap herself in the face, and what she was wearing at the time. It probably wasn't trials for the Olympics.

But more serious is a woman's breasts being called "noticable past the boundaries of decent". We do expect people to wear clothes, and this woman was, but is that the way we want a natural body to be described?

We wear them because they make breasts look what patriarchy deems as sexy. Breasts in bras look perter than any could naturally and have an unnaturally round shape. But we fo not need bras, breasts do not sag more without bras (although why is sagging negative? It's natural) unless you do a lot of sport that gives you breast pain which would mean you need a sports bra then you don't need a bra. If it were just for comfort then very, large breasted women who found then uncomfortable would wear crop tops not wired, padded, lace bras.

Without a bra it hurts to run upstairs, or downstairs for that matter, it also hurts to do anything that involves bending forwards and then straightening up - picking Lego off the floor for instance. If I lie on the couch to watch tv or read I accidentally lie on them and that hurts too, I've also cut my nipple while leaning forwards and shutting it in the door.

I'm not so fussed about what they look like, I just prefer not to be in pain.

Agree with krumbum.

I hardly ever wear a bra, in fact I've only recently started wearing one for work, because I also tend to wear thin tops and since pregnancy and breastfeeding my nipples stick out in a very obvious way. I wouldn't (and don't) really care about this among female company, especially other mums, but I find it really distracting when I'm trying to talk to someone and they're flicking their eyes down at my chest which has happened when I have worn this combination of thin top + no bra in a situation where there were men, especially men who weren't used to being around mothers. The kind of shop I work in, I wouldn't really want to attract that kind of attention, much as I know it's not my responsibility to cover up.

So, I bought a bra which I liked, underwired, slightly padded, and I do like the effect it has when on, but it can be so uncomfortable and some days I really notice it. I often end up layering up tops so I can get away with not wearing it.

I have small breasts so no comfort problems for me, but I have frequently wished they were bigger so that they looked nicer. I do have to wear a bra if I want any semblance of a bust under clothing. However this doesn't bother me as much as it used to, which is probably in part because DP has always been really complimentary about them and specifically about them being smaller, which makes me wonder how much of my insecurity/dislike about them was genuine and how much was based on societal expectations.

"One wonders how this lady managed to be running fast enough to slap herself in the face, and what she was wearing at the time. It probably wasn't trials for the Olympics."

If you are referring to my post about my friend, she was running down stairs.

We wear them because they make breasts look what patriarchy deems as sexy.

Would that be the royal "we" Krumbum?

Sometimes I do wish my fellow feminists would not try and tell me what my motives are.

Watch my lips. I wear a bra because I find it more comfortable. And to repeat... I don't give a flying fuck what the patriarchy deems.

You may. I don't.

Then you don't understand what patriarchy is. Why did women not start wearing bras until the 20th century? Were women just unbearably uncomfortable up until then? Did women wear corsets cos they were comfy. If bras were for comfort (I mean physical comfort) then they would all be simple soft cotton with no wire that only women with very large breasts wore, but they are not. As a feminist I would assume you understood how we are socialised by patriarchy. It is important to question why we do things and whether it is part of female oppression. Which when you look at the evidence, bras are. If you mean comfort because your you feel emotionally more comfortable ie your boobs sag less, no visible nipple then that is clearly bras being used to achieve a unnaturally 'sexy' look and shaming those who do not wear a bra leads to this discomfort for them.

It's too bad that most people are concentrating on the personal here, and ignoring the political. Oh well.

But boobs have been around a lot longer than bras. I wonder what would happen if you went to a tribal village somewhere (could be Fatu-Hiva, where Tei Tetua came from!) and lent a bra to a woman there who'd never seen one in her life. Then a week later you'd go and ask for it back. Would she say, "Hey, that's the most wonderful idea ever! Can I keep it?" Or it might be more like "You white women wear these things all the time? You must be nuts."

I suspect the latter.

Pert breasts are associated with youth, so holding them up falls into the same category as using wrinkle cream, dying grey hairs or plucking chin hair.

"Why did women not start wearing bras until the 20th century?"

Possibly because they had, for centuries, been wearing far more restrictive boned corsets. Bras were a liberation compared to that.

Then you don't understand what patriarchy is.

Please Krumbum, don't patronise me. It's a most unpleasant trait that some feminists indulge in with other feminists who happen to disagree with them.

OK - wired bras. Never ever worn one. Mine are simple cotton and soft and again [slaps hand to forehead] worn for comfort.

As a feminist I would assume you understood how we are socialised by patriarchy.

Yes I do actually though you appear to have contradicted your first sentence there...

My first conscious literary understanding of the patriarchy came when I was 10 in 1953 and read The Second Sex. Then there was Frieden and others and I carried on from there, through more courses, study, women's discussion and books than I care to remember, right through the personal is the political and the late 60s and early 70s second wave feminism even though many of my contemporaries and I and my mother and grandmother (a suffragette) had been living feminism and the effects of the patriarchy for the entire 20th century between us.

If you mean comfort because your you feel emotionally more comfortable..."

Jesus H Christ. NO.. How many more times?

..shaming those who do not wear a bra leads to this discomfort for them."

So wearing a bra leads to women who don't feeling shamed? What are you suggesting - that those who wear bras for comfort shouldn't do so because it makes those who don't feel bad? If women who don't wear bras are unnerved by women who do then they clearly have some esteem issues.

And finally you say it is important to consider why we do things. Yes, indeed. I have spent the last six decades considering why we do things. And that's why I am able to tell the difference between what I do because of the effects of the patriarchy e.g my occasional sortie in high heels and what I do for comfort.

I don't expect to convince you and I apologies for a rant, but I do get brassed off by feminists who believe it's my way or the highway......not all us old birds are brainwashed victims of the patriarchy you know. Some of us have managed to learn a bit about the patriarchy along the highway....

But my irritation is derailing the thread so I really will leave it at that. Time for lunch and a glass of

grimble - Don't leave! I find wearing a bra comfortable - I have large breasts. What I don't know is whether this is because I am used to wearing a bra and whether if I didn't - say for a few months - things would feel different. For example, I find it more comfortable to wear shoes than go barefoot. And yet adults who have been brought up barefoot, from everything I have read, tend to find shoes very restrictive and uncomfortable. So I suspect my feet have adjusted to this and haven't had the natural toughening up they would get if I had always gone barefoot.

So yes I wear a bra about the house purely for my own comfort. But I'm not sure if this is the whole truth and if I had never worn one whether bras would feel uncomfortable

I wear bras as I like them and don't want people seeing my nipples through tops!

Won't see me burning my bra anytime soon