'High fliers' and nannies

[Takver]

I've seen in several places recently (including in threads on here, and for example in this article in last Saturday's Guardian) an assumption that if you are a wealthy and successful family where a nanny provides most of your childcare this is likely to result in your children being less 'stimulated' / likely to become highfliers themselves / otherwise missing out.

Typical quote from the piece linked to: "You assume they'll be intelligent, but you've never wondered how this will come about: when they try to interact with you, you're too busy."

Now maybe I'm overthinking this, but it seems to me that if we go back 40 or 50 years, it would have been the absolute accepted norm in a wealthy family for nannies / other staff to do the vast majority of childcare, and indeed for boys at least to then be sent off to boarding school from age 7 onwards. I can't imagine that anyone would have dreamed that this would in someway disadvantage their children or result in them being less successful themselves when they grew up. Of course back then the women of the family wouldn't have had the option to have top jobs themselves, they would have been occupied with their social functions.

Yet now - when women are able to access high flying jobs - we are told that this pattern of purchased childcare is going to disadvantage the children. And of course the corollary of this assumption is almost invariably that it is the mother - never the father - who is in some way being selfish by devoting their time to work and not childrearing.

I should say that I don't have any direct interest here myself - I am absolutely Ms-hippy-nature-walks-and-crafty-shit-mother but it just seems to me like another cunning way to stick women right back where they belong . . .

The nursery I used was a university campus nursery and the cleaning was done by university cleaning staff. No food prep or bottles because parents sent in bottles and food came from central catering. Ratio was never less than 1:3 (because that would be illegal) so most of the time would be slightly better because the number of children there wasn't always divisible by 3. Staff retention was so good that there were several sets of mothers/daughters working there.
Obviously we were lucky and most people don't get such great care at a reasonable price (it was cheaper than the profitmaking nurseries we looked at) but there was definitely more 1-2-1 attention than I was able to provide for ds2 when I had 2 older children to look after and most certainly better than I could give ds1 and dd when pregnant with dses and throwing up constantly.

Wasabi, you are probably not inferior to your dp in looking after your own child.Sounds as if you lack confidence in this area.Your dp may have millions of qualifications, but that does not make you inferior.

amillion - ha ha ha you re a wind up merchant!

i dont think i am 'inferior' - i am a f**king genuis on a good day, but i dont have sexist or nuclear family views on childcare. i want to be a parent amongst other things in my life, not A Mother.

& on a bad day merely extremely clever

Bonsoir I don't think all nannies are as bad as you say, though.

One of DS closest friends has a nanny and she is very good indeed. She does everyhting I do with my DC and probably more as i also work from home. We often go out together with my DC and her charges. At least once per week during the school holidays. She is always the one to come up with new ideas.

Her English is also impeccible and she is intelligent and caring. The DC are delightful. I often have the boy over to stay and he is a great kid.

When I speak to my friends about the boy, everyone agrees he is a delight. He is certainly not in any way damaged by his experience with his nanny.

I observe the DCs at my DD's school and see very different personality traits emerging at 7/8 based on whether they have a SAHP or not

lol at that point.
Seriously the temperament of your child is linked to whether you are a SAHP or not?
Nothing to do with the child himself or with the parent himself?

Horizons are broadened stratospherically for DCs surrounded by intelligent stimulating adults with a broad range of cultural interests.
The thing is not all parents have a broad range of cultural interest. Not all parents are intelligent and stimulating. And spending the day with mummy when she goes to sees her friends isn't in my book the only way to stimulate a child esp as she will then want to be left alone to have 'that'conversation etc....
Having done the 'I am spending the pm with a friend who has dcs of a similar age' I can tell that it had no benefit whatsoever for the dcs re social skills (they never talked or played with each other). They did quite a lot of 'unstructured play' though that could have been done at home or in a nursery.

Lynette you make a good point about different types/quality of nanny. I had a nanny for much of my childhood and can remember the massive difference between some of the disinterested short term nannies we had and the loving, long term nanny we had for 7 years.

Of course the same applies to SAHMs too though - they come in different qualities too. It's an unpopular view but some mothers are not that good at looking after small children. (As Wasabi says, it is acceptable to say that some fathers are not good at it whereas it is sacrilege to say some mothers are not - a sexist distinction).

I think on this thread people have generally assumed the best type of SAHM (loving, interactive, committed etc) so to be fair we should also assume the best type of nanny.

The closer I get, the worse I think they are! I used to be quite charitable but even the long-term and well-meaning ones begin to bore the pants off the children by 7/8.

Well, my DD and I have a whole host of "family friends" - all the DCs know one another and play together and all the mothers know all the DCs and we have all spent lots of time at one another's homes and doing a whole host of activities/holidays etc. Whereas nannies get together by language group and chat in languages the DC cannot understand. As the nannies rotate, the DCs don't know each other... no continuity and no activities.

cailin thanks for putting my mind at rest about your experience :)

Ds' nursery has a full time cook and I do bottles. I haven't noticed nursery staff hoovering and dusting but he's only been there 5 hours so they may do!

bonsoir I'm sure that's right. But how many can afford that? What sacrifices do you make to have that? Is it one less foreign holiday a year and no new car? Or is it value beans all week for tea?

Bonsoir I seem to be going the opposite way.

When my DC were younger I didn't want a nanny and so gave up work. I told myself that a nanny would never match what I could do.

But now my DC are almost teenagers, and I see a heck of a lot of their friends (we always seem to have a spare friend or three staying during the vacs), I really don't think there's much difference between those whose parenst worked and those who did not. Having twins and having another two sets amongst our friends I can assure you that personality developes almost in spite of our best endevours. They're all terrific young people!!!

Bonsoir what age the children you are talking about?
7~8yo or 2~3yo?

When my dcs were little, ie not at school, and 2~3yo they never played with others children. Just because they are not ready developmentally.
Hence the fact that 'having friends' or going to see 'other children' isn't that important. not to mentioned that children in England don't have a contact as easy as in France
Not as important as it is when they are 6~10 yo.

And not all nannies are foreigners!

Bonsoir, I can totally see how this would happen with families employing nannies from other countries because it costs them less.

But the same thing is less likely to happen, say in London, with families employing only English speaking nannies.

Plenty of teens round here to make comparisons with too, wordfactory .

Bonsoir you might be correct what you say about the nannies, but dont you think people who know you make the same sort of comments about your parenting skills, because everyone can pass comments about everyone else?

when the vast majority are doing their best, what they think is right etc etc.

if all these SAHP have been raising 'better children' for generations, i have never met one as a child or grown up. which makes me think it just isnt true.

Really? You cannot distinguish adults who had engaged, attentive, loving parents from those who had distant/absent ones?

But Bonsoir if you approach a situation with pre-conceived ideas, you will generally find what you expect to find.

You have consistently been against child care and having two working parents since your DD was born. Probably beforehand. You are adamant that your way is best...so you are almost bound to find the things you are convinced of.

1. i thought your division was SAH v working parents?
2. i have seen very attentive parents mess up their DCs

But Bonsoir youe DP is absent from his DS's lives no? In that he is divorced from their moother and thus not with them part of the week. Will this not damage them?

My DSSs had childcare (nannies) which was why DP and I didn't want it for DD. Lots of experience formed out opinions, wordfactory. It was something we decided on before the event, IYSWIM. We know dozens and dozens of DCs and have based our decisions on what we have observed.

He sees the DSSs almost every day, talks to them all the time etc. I don't think I know any father who spends as much time with his children!

I don't think I know any father who spends as much time with his children!

sounds like a male Xenia (heaven forbid )! high powered job, sees more of his DCs than anyone else....

What I do know is that children would rather spend time with their parents than any one else.

Even parents who aren't as qualified in childcare/entertaining/educational as the carers the parents employ.

Then that proves my point Bonsoir.

Most people would say that DC who have a father living elsewhere with a new woman and their child, would be surely damaged. The impact could not be otherwise. But you are saying your DP has overcome that through his approach.

I suspect many working parents do the same, in that they modify their approach to make sure their DC are not spending too much time with a nanny who does nothing with them.

You obviously live in a very different environment to me. Here in La-La Land I don't know anyone whose nanny isn't English. But then everyone pays top dollar for their childcare...the prices are eye watering.

Well, he has lunch with them or does sport with them several days a week, and they spend half the nights of the year (at least) with us. And DP is the one who does all the educational stuff (his exW is not at all interested in this) - is a class rep, follows all their homework, plans their holidays, future etc with them.