Damaged men

[OneHandFlapping]

I've just come from the thread on red flags in relationships, and there are endless, endless posts from women who have suffered EA in their relationships. Including me.

Does anyone here have any insight into why so many men behave like this?

I have nothing to offer to the discussion, but I would like to hear what other poeple have to say, if only so I can help my sons NOT become men like this.

"I also think that what is definied as abusive behaviour is very very close to what was a borderline normal way of treating women not very long ago. There will be a lot of men walking around thinking that they are good men because they bring home the bacon and don't beat their wives, because that was all that was necessary for their fathers to be a good man."

Yes absolutely. I still see women on here saying, 'Well, my DH isn't great but at least he's never been violent."

To see how ridiculous this is, let's change the context: 'My boss is not great, but at least he's never been violent.' If anyone said this, everyone would be WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, because using violence in the workplace is so far beyond the pale it's almost inconceivable. Yet, one would hope that women could expect to be treated better by their husband than by their employer...

A lot of people lead by the example they have been shown. I think especially with dysfunctional people looking back can be very eye opening.

Alot of Abusive men probably saw male role models degrade women in their family on a daily basis and went on to see this as normal that goes from having no respect right to DV.

So in some respects mothers/women are not totally blameless to accept disrespect is also to condone the behaviour.

As a mental health nurse/addictions counsellor, doing a lot of work with people in abusive relationships, it really got to me after a while how many of these men claimed they had no control over their actions. They seemed to revel in a warped sense of their ''dangerousness'', and how much power they could wield just by threatening to really lose it...and then of course claim they could not remember their actions once the ''red mist'' had cleared.

They were almost universally total wankers, and if ever seriously confronted about their behaviour would react with the other almost universal attribute of these guys, total self-pity. It wasn't their fault, they had had it tough from childhood, also frequently claimed to have been abused as children, as if that was their get out of jail card..which it often was.

As my tolerance for this bullshit evaporated over time and I could sense my career was coming to an end , I did start to confront this stuff very directly, didn't do any good as protocols and theories were there to reinforce the supposed after effects of childhood abuse and trauma, giving some allowance to abusive behaviour.

Many of these abusers embraced victim culture, and if they ever ended up in any kind of counselling group had many defences to their behaviour, except the obviously unsaid one: ''It's fun and gives me enormous pleasure to terrify by words or deed someone I really resent for needing in my life''

Will condition the above by saying there is a lot of good work done in some prisons with abusive men, and people can and do change for the better with the right interventions.

I agree with the control ideas, already mentioned on this thread, that many of these abusive men know exactly how to target their specific victims and stop short of inflicting abuse in ways that would make it more difficult for them to escape punishment.

Where do the men who do murder or inflict more obvious signs of abuse fit in? Are they on the extreme end of some kind of spectrum or is it a different thing entirely?

That really rings a bell, ohdobuckup. I knew someone like that. He was aggressive in everyday interactions, including occasionally physically aggressive and (as I found out after I crossed him off the Christmas card list) seriously abusive to his girlfriends. He simply would not acknowledge that he had control over his actions, and was responsible for them. Complete denial/disconnect. If anyone persisted in challenging him the whining about his terrible upbringing started.

Well some men who are abusive to their partners are abusive to a lot of other people as well. These are the ones who don't have much, if any, control over themselves, the ones who can't hold down a job because they regularly flip out and punch the boss or break up the workplace, the ones who are in and out of prison for fighting, etc. Funnily enough I think I heard somewhere that the universally abusive are actually the ones it's easier to cure because they don't have the specific mindset that women are not people but something between domestic appliance and pet.

Yes sgb I think you are right, generalised aggression seems to be more amenable to change and self-control through work and therapy.

I think most abusers of women are swamped by a number of emotions, namely resentment, fear of what they see as women's power ,fear of female sexual power/rejection, and anger towards a person who they may not want but do need.

I had one man who in a counselling session, suddenly exploded with a real, deep hatred of all women. It was genuinely shocking to listen to, and the atmosphere in the room (just him and me) became almost evil.

He ranted about what he did to women , how he led them on ,flattered them, how easy it was to seduce and con them. He verbally abused them after sex, I wont detail it, but it was just evil stuff, and his face contorted with rage. He stormed out of the building, never returned to any sessions. We informally alerted local police who were very interested. The man was well known locally, an entrepreneur who liked to sell himself as a saviour of businesses and with lots of civic activities.

I dread to think what he continued to get away with, I wanted to fly-poster the town with warnings...

I think a lot of it is learned behaviour and presumably their dad was a total wanker too.

From reading many threads on the relationship board they all seem to follow the same script.

I have noticed that they don't lose their temper they actually use their temper.

There is another disturbing thread on Relationships "is this normal or does my DH just not fancy me" where the OPs dh has taken emotional abuse to a whole new level. its one of the most disturbing threads ive ever seen.