Help me figure out why sex with Robot 'females' is WORSE than paying for prostituted women

[LaurieFairyCake]

I'm massively on the fence and it's giving me splinters but my gut is telling me it's even slightly worse to have sex with robots which sounds completely ridiculous to my feminist brain

In case anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about it's this horrible article in the Mail here

What I've got so far is that it will increase dehumanisation of 'real' women as if they are lifelike and you can do anything to the robot including being violent then it will go some to way blur and confuse the lines between fantasy and reality.

I'm really interested in others opinions.

breeders!

Hang on, it is incredibly prejudicial to assume that robot prostitutes are more virtuous than human robots.

I read a whole book on robots and sex based on a PHD thesis. It actually argued taht both men and women in the near future will have sex with robots. Is it still wrong if it is a woman having sex with a robot?

A genuine question as I can't get my head round this subject at the moment.

How do you know the Robot really wants you?

I guess you don't.

I think the only way you could consider sex with robots to be 'worse' than sex with unwilling sex workers (ie those who have been coerced into the trade) would be if you deep-down believe that sexual pleasure should be restricted, and that it shouldn't be 'too easy' to obtain gratification.

WHat people are thinking is their business and no one else's.
Really? even someone close to you - your own partner is plotting your murder?

FFS you can't know what anyone else is thinking, you can only ask them, or make assumptions
This is a practical issue of difficulty knowing what they are thinking, but doesn't mean that its none of your business.

and even if you ask them they have every right to lie to you or refuse to answer
This statement is unqualified. I agree they have the ability to lie to you, but that ability to lie doesn't mean that it is a right to lie

on the grounds that it is none of your business.
If my partner, when challenged as to whether they are plotting my murder told me it was 'none of my business' - I would find that a most bizarre brush off.

I think if my partner said that to me foodunit, I would know that their is a massive problem. And i think I would be genuinely scared too.

Sorry there - I do actually know the difference - honest.

[apologies if the thread has moved on... I've been writing this one with a lot of baby interruptions!]

Sorry SGB, I don't want to seem like I'm targeting you, but I disagree with this: "I think the only way you could consider sex with robots to be 'worse' than sex with unwilling sex workers (ie those who have been coerced into the trade) would be if you deep-down believe that sexual pleasure should be restricted, and that it shouldn't be 'too easy' to obtain gratification."

I think you are trying to force the subject into two camps. Either 'all sex is dirty, bad, wrong and should be stopped' or 'all sex is great, everyone is entitled to do whatever they want, wa-hey!'. But neither of those is really true. The first is just the remnants of the myths of religious patriarchy and the hatred of women and women's sexuality, fertility, and expression - original sin and all that. The second is the sexual myth of capitalist patriarchy that is currently being promoted- which is essentially about all men having a right to unrestricted access to women and calling it healthy, real vital masculinity (and usually by implication - something that women 'consent to').

The first is wrong, obviously and doesn't need any explaining, but with the second, unfortunately 'all sex is good' is not a great adage since a turn-on for some includes sadism, torture, abuse of power, rape, instilling fear, controlling another, humiliating another, etc. The fulfilment of this darker, violent abusive side of sexuality requires the abuse or exploitation of another's vulnerability: either people with less relative power as individuals (eg having inadequate sense of boundary or healthy relationships through childhood neglect) or a group (eg -women as a class by men as a class).

So as to "I think the only way you could consider sex with robots to be 'worse' than sex with unwilling sex workers would be if you deep-down believe that sexual pleasure should be restricted, and that it shouldn't be 'too easy' to obtain gratification. - I disagree with this mis-characterisation of the OP because it is possible to have a wider analysis of the power-relationships within the status quo and to have concerns that men having their desire to impose their sexual will (instead of negotiate a mutual sexual gratification) given increasing license and resources, might possibly have an negative impact upon women in unimagined ways.

It's the idea that they're being made as a fake woman, isn't it. Machines for sexual gratification exist - vibrators, fleshlights, etc. That's okay because they serve a unique purpose; they don't try to simulate the whole-body experience of sex with a partner.

When you want a machine to be like a person, but to have no thoughts or feelings, you're looking for an object with which you can have a one-way sexual relationship (for a while). It's this objectification - the removal of responsibility towards the partner - that creeps us out about RealDoll aficionados, as well as prostitute users.

At least the RealDoll guys are not using & abusing real women, which I suppose is the argument in favour of sexbots. Technically it's a safer and more humane option for men who can't handle fully-dimensional human interactions with women. On that basis, I feel I couldn't object strongly to men who bought one of the things - like the man with the doll, he's saying "I am dysfunctional and this is my safe solution."

Hiring one for an hour/night would be just the same as hiring a prostitute, in that he's saying "I think I'm sexually & emotionally rounded BUT I still like to enjoy dysfunctional experiences now and again." The second part nullifies the first statement, in my view. I find his attitude repulsive.

So I reckon it would be safer, but I'd still prefer men to find their sexual balance and stop wanting to treat women as cock receptacles - whether the women are real or fake, it still normalises sexual objectification of women.

I'd think differently if the robots were not like human women in appearance.

...I still like to enjoy dysfunctional experiences now and again

Perhaps I need to clarify I meant "to use a sex partner abusively" rather than indulge some non-normative preference.

I think it's a really interesting ethical question, one not just limited to sexbots.

For example, what if someday we can own robots to clean our homes, make our dinners, be our servants basically. Would we end up treating them like slaves? And would that be okay just because the robot slaves don't mind?

Slavery is about as old as prostitution. What would it do to our societies to reinstate a slave system? Would it erode modern notions of egalitarianism and hence democracy and human rights?

I don't think sexbots are worse than human prositution. I think they just create a different set of problems.

Dreamingbohemian: Well, quite, the ethics of using/owning a robot are not just to do with sex - it's just that involving sexual behaviour in a discussion about ethical issues is a good way to get people squawking and panicking and missing the point. I think it boils down to whether or not a robot could be said to have an independent consciousness, or indeed be designed to have one. I think 'robots' of a very primitive kind are already used in bomb disposal, and could imagine that 'humanoid bots' might be deployed to find landmines by stepping on them or something...

I want one of those, dreaming!

Surely your question depends on the owner? I have a tendency to thank my appliances when they work particularly well. Additionally, I'd consider it detrimental to my own emotional wellbeing if I treated a slave, robot or appliance abusively.

Actually, when they make these things, they should include an abuse detector that issues a reprimand and shuts down for a few seconds

Thing is, sex doesn't have to be 'meaningful' to be enjoyable. Some people have no interest in sex with another person anyway; their erotic impulses centre on inanimate objects. This isn;'t bad, or wrong, or something that needs to be prohibited or controlled.
And as to how men view women: stopping women being objectified as domestic appliances and breeding stock would be a good place to start.

Yes robots are already used to an astounding degree in modern warfare, which raises all sorts of ethical questions as well. (How will we take decisions about going to war when it's 'just' robots getting destroyed?)

garlic that's an interesting idea, an abuse detector. I would not be surprised if things like that go into the regulations that would inevitably have to emerge once robot use became widespread.

Of course, that would just set up a black market for robots with the abuse detector disabled.

'Course it would, dreaming! But it would be jolly interesting to see abusive purchasers having to make a clear choice ...

btw I think it's sweet you thank your toaster

All that money effort and brains going into sex robots.

Wouldn't it be lovely if it went on feeding the world?

hey ho.

I think solidgoldbrass is on the money (unintentional prostitution pun) on this one.

What is a robot?
Wikipedia says
'A robot is a mechanical or virtual intelligent agent that can perform tasks automatically or with guidance, typically by remote control.'

I'd say a vibrator fits into that category. Id also argue that a vibrator takes the most raw sexual form of a man...no need even for a body, just a cock.

What is healthy fantasy? Well i have no idea at all and certainly dont believe i can tell someone else whether their fantasies are or are not acceptable.

Two scenarios:
Man having sex with robot thinking about his first love.
Women having sex with a vibrator thinking about group sex with three men she works with even though she's married.

Whats worse. I dont know, i think they all seem very human to me...but more importantly, i dont care its not my business.

I don't hvae a problem with men or women paying or being paid for sex so I certainly wouldn't object if a man or woman wanted to buy a fake plastic blow up person 9although it certainly would not appeal to me) or make their own at home.

For some reason I thought this thread might be about this robotic girl vimeo.com/24309638 - if you watch to the end you see she triumphs ...laughing as I type.

I certainly would be with solidbrass.
I would also never prohibit or censure thought and indeed many expressions of thought.

It would be pretty dull if we were all identical eg no one gay or whatever.

Tomwm
It assumes that when a woman uses a vibrator she is pretending it is a penis. Maybe she is just using the vibration.

A sexbot is a different thing and you can't really get away from wider power dynamics. For example, if you had 'domestic chore bots' its fair enough if it looked like a robot, but if a white person bought ones that were made to look like black slaves, then you would feel uneasy about visiting that person. So it is when men (who have greater power & privilege and freedom historically) choose to have robots to look like women. In that way its very different from a woman with a dildo.

• that look like women- I should say (bleedin smartphones!)