Extreme Male Brain

[StarshitTerrorise]

Can anyone help me put an end to my DH's indoctrination on this matter?

ApParently it makes perfect sense but it sounds about as sensible as when the US started publishing 'evidence' that black people were intellectually inferior.

Many Tia!

What does he say about it?

Yes. If he'd called them WankerBrain and DoormatBrain, then we'd know where we were.

Oh sorry OP, didn't answer your Q - ask him whether he thinks he's more WankerBrain or DoormatBrain? That might get him thinking over the more twatty elements of the hypothesis.

was a webchat with Cordelia. Might help. Or google her debunking his work.

Sorry, my lady brain was playing up. the link www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminist_book_club/1172220-Cordelia-Fine-Webchat-Friday-March-25-at-11-am/AllOnOnePage

FFS!

Thank you for the link to cordelia!

He doesn't say a lot except that it makes sense how the science is presented.
I told him that so did the research on higher domestic violence levels in working class families being linked to 'breeding', 'class' and 'IQ' but that was subsequently found to be bollocks too!

"The E-S theory has been tested using the Empathy Quotient (EQ) and Systemizing Quotient (SQ), and generates 5 different 'brain types' depending on the presence or absence of discrepancies between their scores on E or S. E-S profiles show reliable sex differences in the general population (more females showing the profile E>S and more males showing the profile S>E).[1] "

"A final criticism is that people with autism may not match the description of being 'extreme males' because they are not more aggressive or more physically masculine than others. Again, this misunderstands the 'extreme male brain' theory which does not argue that people with autism show an extreme of all male traits (such as height, aggression, visuospatial skills, or muscularity) but only on E-S measures: below average cognitive empathy and intact or above average systemizing.

To date there are still too few studies of women with Asperger Syndrome (AS) but a recent cognitive study confirms this profile (PLOS-One, June 2011, Volume 6), that women with AS show elevated levels of a precursor of testosterone (androstenedione)[17] and show a different protein profile in relation to sex hormones[18]"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathizing%E2%80%93systemizing_theory#The_extreme_male_brain_theory_of_autism

I have no axe to grind on this: I come out in the 'average' range for females on these tests but have slightly elevated levels of testosterone for a woman. I also get slightly elevated scores on some autism-related behaviours. I don't know whether the two factors are related, but you have to remember theories like this are based on observation. Nobody's really claiming that gender dictates a certain kind of brain, only observing that more men have a certain type of brain and more women have another.
Also, it's a proportional test not an absolute.

He's a scientist?

He's read the literature? Are you wanting to question the methodology? The conclusions?

I have partially skim read a paper by him on the subject here. And even to me it is evident he makes no allowance for nature vs nurture.

Maybe a baby is more likely to be displaying innate abilities, but when it comes to the sections on mens' career choices in science, IT and construction demonstrating the principal of extreme male brain, the discussion seems unscientific and subjective to me.

I agree with you, Sharshit. It's like observing social trends and labelling going to university and becoming professionally qualified "white-type life" and expecting people not to be offended.

DH is an academic. Engineering.

He just read the book, which tbh I haven't.

I think I was hoping that there was a better book out there I could point him to if this subject is of interest to him.

Me, I studied psychology at under and post graduate level as well as education methodology and child development. I do not like the deterministic assumptions nor the implied acceptance of these supposed traits, even if found in adulthood being the 'natural' order.

I'd point him to Cordelia Fine's book.

Onehand, I find it akin to suggesting that working class people are not as bright as middle class people and possibly using career choice as the 'evidence'.

"Male brain" huh- Does that mean that us female aspies are actually transgender? All this time, and I didn't notice I was a man on the inside!

OP: The end of the second paragraph in my quote gives you an aswer, I hope!

What this theory actually means is that "Extreme Male Brain" - that is, a brain with autistic characteristics - is average or above for systemising and below average for cognitive empathy. In claiming this label for himself, your husband says he is disabled when it comes to understanding other human beings. No more.

HTH

But DH is great at understanding others, albeit lazy at times in acting upon it!

But he doesn't have an extreme type S brain...

But I bet it did ring true to him. DH is an engineer, and it spoke to him! Engineering is a perfect match for the description of systematising.

They're not deterministic assumptions. They're observational.

When I worked in advertising, I made heavy use of a social profiling tool based on postcode. If I needed to advertise red pesto, for example, I'd find that Islington had a higher proportion of people who are likely to use pesto than, say, Merton. This doesn't indicate in any way that making pasta dishes at home makes you live in Islington, nor that living in Merton puts you off pesto. It simply says that a Islington residents are more likely to use pesto.

In fact, IIRC, one of the pieces of evidence he uses is based on performance in an engineering aptitude test. And one for Physics.

Sounds like Mr Starshit is not only deluded, but wrong!

If he's a bit weak on systematising, that would explain why he misunderstood the theory

They're deterministic in the belief that people are born with a brain one way or the other. The actual observational data in adulthood doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the natural make up of the brain.

And it's Dr Starshit

Only Dr? He needs to crank his Extremely Male Brain into high gear and get to Prof Starshit, pronto.