I have never posted on this topic, or read anything on here, and feel like I have misunderstood what it means to be a feminist. Would anyone have the time to educate me please?

[fabwoman]

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Weeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllll

I would wish my daughter to have a child/ren if she wants them when she is in a position of stability
I have a good relationship and that is nice and so I would want that for her
She is 4 and goes to a CofE school which is all quite traditional
In this context the whole "married" thing is shorthand for stable relationship, in the world DD inhabits
I always point out that sometimes there are two mummies or two daddies
And that sort of thing
So I am fence-sitting on the married thing a bit.

Your DD is 8. Like madwoman says - that is very young! And who knows when she is older how she will be.
I think she sounds quite cool though

GWTFC I am sorry to hear about your DH.

well, it's about age appropriateness.

lol at 'that might have been the wrong thing to say'

you might know that what you mean is 'raising a baby as a single mother is hard and i wouldn't wish that for you - i want you achieve the world and not know hardship, and i want you to be hetero desperately because the world is a hard enough place without challenging the status quo', but an 8yo would just look at you as though you were a crazy lady if you came out with that.

if she was your 38yo single (i dunno, lawyer?) daughter and you were having the same discussion, it would be rather about what she was intending to do about work - was she going to take time out, or employ a nanny, or use childcare. and whether she thought she was doing the right thing/ was prepared for other people to judge her.

i tend to use the 'people usually are married when they have a baby, but not everyone is. sometimes it can be harder if you aren't', and then go on to discuss why if it comes up.

she just wants to know she can have/ adopt a baby without having a boring old man along for the ride. she isn't really interested in the politics of marriage or single motherhood at this point.

i think feminism has a lot to say about the institution of marriage... but i don't think that's what your 8yo means. it is all about the expectations of women in our society - so is very tied up in the issues that feminists wrangle with, so not completley separate.

i prefer to think of it as not being narrow minded, rather than feminist in itself.

Hi Fabwoman

I have lurked here for years and learned a lot but I still feel my feminism is an instinctive thing, I can't link to books or blogs but I remember a thread here where someone said they didn't want equality, they wanted liberation and that really chimed with me. I am not ugly because I have a grey hair, nor desirable because I wear a size 10. I'm not a prude just because I don't want my childrens' future relationships dictated by porn The work I do inside my home isn't worth less than the work I do outside my home. Feminism works to change this and that's why I'm a feminist

I'm so pleased you didn't believe the MN stereotypes about this board. I've seen your posts around and about. I'm glad you've made your way here

Her uncle is in a civil partnership with his male partner and she knows about that. I think she has asked about them having a baby - or her brother has - and I have said no they can't as they are both boys. I need to have a word with myself about why it is I want them married before they have babies as I wasn't thinking about it from it being easier with 2 parents angle.

I lived with dh before marriage but wouldn't have had a baby. Him neither. His mother would have gone up in blue smoke if we had. Not sure she will ever get over us living in sin .

What stereotypes??

I have read something about you guys being fierce but I have never felt so welcomed, listened too and helped than on this thread. No one has laughed at me that I didn't know any of this stuff. And for that I thank you all .

No, no, no don't be fooled! We are joyless...sexless...stay away or you'll be infected with our man hating too

When I was 8 I was never going to be married either and would only have girl children, I was veeery sniffy about boys back then

SardineQueen thanks for that :) we manage Ok, although it is hard sometimes, especially as DS1 is disabled too. Not quite how I saw my life going when we got married.

Interestingly enough, I had a lot of opposition from friends and family when I went back to work full time when DH became disabled and lost his job. If I had not done this, we would have lost our house etc. A lot of women friends said they would have left their husbands if they could no longer be the provider. Others said I was emasculating him by working full time with him being the one at home. I was totally shocked by both view points as I felt we were/are a partnership and help each other out. One of us had to work to support the family and all we did was swap around traditional roles.

Actually, I often joke that I can see why men preferred the 50s way of life. It's much easier to be the one working and come home to dinner on the table, the paperwork done, shopping done etc.!

In fact it has given our DSs an interesting slant on life, I think.

fabwoman (and Gurl) - most feminist I know take a gender-neutral starting position on most things. Most non-feminists tend to start from a more traditional position and so gender-neutral stuff seems a bit "out there". Taking a feminist position doesn't mean a reversal of the status quo, it just means a "me too" for women. Start from there and you can't go far wrong.

Yes, lots of people mistakenly think that feminists want a reversal of the current status quo.

I'm what is called a radical feminist and our point of view is that the current status quo is intrinsically wrong and cannot be righted. We want a whole new system altogether, where the social construction of gender doesn't exist, and one's sex does not decide one's status (indeed there will be no hierarchy of status, but that is starting to get into the abstract!)

"A lot of women friends said they would have left their husbands if they could no longer be the provider."

I am flabbergasted.

I don't think I know anyone who would say that the woman working was emasculating - around here families all seem to muck in with work/childcare etc - but that first thing people said is just unbelievable.

That has shocked me too SQ.

DH is a very hands on dad and was thrown in at the deep end after an emergency section. His father wasn't even at the hospital when his kids were born.

Beachcomber - re radical feminism; 'the current status quo is intrinsically wrong and cannot be righted. We want a whole new system altogether...'

What is the proposed method for introducing such a system, both in the UK and further afield? Is there a plan, a timeline, an approach? How would it be implemented in theocratic countries, or does rad fem accept that not all countries would be receptive to it?

Sanjeev, radical feminists are perfectly aware of the reality that no countries, theocratic or otherwise, wish to embrace a radical feminist revolution.

So we do stuff like support women's refuges, help women out of prostitution, believe rape victims, speak out against violence against women and the fetishization of female bodies and sexuality, etc, in the meantime. And we take heart from how countries like Iceland and Sweden edge towards attempting to address gender inequality and female oppression as expressed through the institution of prostitution. We also take heart from countries (Iceland again!) which try to address the huge under-representation of women in politics.

I think you may be underestimating the all pervading might of the status quo if you think I can answer your above questions in less than the contents of a very long treatise of many volumes and probably involving several authors!

For me feminism means wanting equal rights for women under the law which in many countries they still do not have and fairness at home. Most men and women in England support those principles.

I have no problems with the way work is structured - I am a capitalist feminist and I feel insulted all over the press when it is assumed because I have breasts I am not ambitious, want to compete and be successful and the best at what I do in the UK and that I might want to work 2 hours a day and spend the rest doing childcare and housework. The sooner women as I am can take 2 weeks holiday off in which to have a baby without anyone turning an eye lid just as man can the better.

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