Girls don't cycle?? What's up with that?

[Himalaya]

As a mother of boys I have vaguely noticed that you don't see many teenage girls on bikes these days.

I cycled to my son's secondary school today to drop something off, and in the bike shed counted 40 definitely boy's bikes, 1 definitely girl's bike and 3 that could have been either.

Being able to get around on a bike gives an important measure of freedom and independence to teenagers IME (as a girl, and as a parent). It seems like just another important, fun, freedom-giving thing that girls are missing out on more than they used to.

Anyone got any idea why? What is preventing more girls cycling? Is it parents being more protective of girls/more willing to drive them places? Cycling (helmets?) having an image problem amongst girls?

Where we live there is a park with a sectioned off area with ramps etc for BMX-ing, skateboarding etc. It is by the children's playground so I am nearby quite often. It is always rammed when the schools are off but I have never once seen a girl in it. The teenage girls go into the playground and chat and swing standing up on the toddler swings (there are no older swings in the park).

To be honest, they are quite a hazard when you are in there with a toddler but that is not really the issue. It just makes me sad that there are so few sports facilities for girls or that in some way they are made to feel they can't join in with the stuff boys do. That includes cycling but plenty of other sports too. The sad thing is it reminds me of when I was a teenager in the 80s - I would no way have entered a skate park full of boys, for example, but you would have hoped things would have changed by now. But I think they have just got more polarised. I eventually found an Inner London scheme in the Docklands where I could learn sailing and canoeing for free and which was populated by boys and girls equally. But nothing like that exists any more.

Sorry I have gone a bit OT but I feel sad for my DD and worry about her opportunities for sport in the future.

I must be really lucky where I live, you see quite a lot of teen girls cycling around in Ugg boots and fancy handbags slung over the handle bars.

Places like skate parks can get colonised by a particular group of children who then exclude (consciously or unconsciously) outsiders from that facility (both girls and boys, but in the case of skate parks more likely to be girls).

That's why whenever a new facility is opened, a skate park, BMX track etc there should be a community sports club attached to encourage everyone - boys and girls, beginner and experienced - to make use of it.

Noddyholder - the attitude of your DS and his friends, which is probably not theirs alone, no doubt has a lot to do with why girls don't skate and bike. It is so sad - boys and girls are getting these polarised images of what they should do and what they should be like. Why don't boys who skate/bike like girls who do the same? I suppose those girls are going to be a bit tougher and more confident then other girls just because they have had the nerve to get involved in a "boys'" activity - is that put boys off them? I suspect it is and again I just feel so sad for the girls.

DaisyAndConfused - that is a great idea but I suspect not an option round our way at the moment and certainly not where the skate park is. It probably took years of lobbying by someone or other just to get the facility that is there.

Come to Cambridge, you will see hundreds of teenage girls on bikes, and indeed every other age/gender/social group on bikes!

I don't think they object to them skating at the park etc I am just commenting that the girls they hang out with and socialise with arent these type of sporty girls so thats why I haven't met any. Not that they don't exist. My ds and his mates would have no prob with them they just don't mix with them he is 18 though and skates in serious way and his girlfriends are separate from that whole scene.

oh cambridge is like Holland, I love it - last time we went there we were chatting to a student who was out cycling with her pet rabbit in the basket!

I know Oranges, sports facilities are woefully lacking in this country.

There are grants available to get community clubs going but it still takes a huge amount of volunteer effort.

Research shows that girls start to think of themselves as "not sporty" around the age of 7! I think I read on another thread that it's also the age that girls start to rule out science and maths, which excludes them from science / engineering careers.

(Obviously this is a generalisation, there will still be sporty / science-y girls out there).

I hope I am giving my DD a good role model by taking part in sport. She also helped me to do some bike maintenance the other day so she didn't just see my DH as the one who could use tools.

The issue of teenage girls dropping out of physical pursuits is a feminist issue, although I can't get myself incensed about cycling. I am a non-cycling woman and this does not hold me back. DD is a non-cycling teen girl, and she does plenty of other active stuff.

I think a lot of teenagers, mostly girls but some boys, are really put off by traditional, hearty sporty activities like team games and cycling, and there's nothing wrong with that, but we have to make sure that the alternatives, like skating and dance remain open to as many as possible.

From SmallClanger, 'The issue of teenage girls dropping out of physical pursuits is a feminist issue'.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4930264.stm

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7103587/Fat-parents-to-blame-for-childhood-obesity-epidemic-by-over-feeding-under-fives-study-finds.html

I think you are being too narrow in your outlook. The issue is with boys and girls, hence increasing obesity in youngsters. I don't believe that there is a difference in obesity levels between boys and girls, so why is it a feminist issue?

It is down to parental attitude. My kids have always played sport. My daughter ran cross country and played football for her school. She has tried hockey and dancing. She has now settled on what she calls cheerleading, but in fact it is group gymnastics and involves 6 hours training per week plus competitions. My wife and I have always taken part in sport ourselves. If you set a good example, your kids will follow.

It is a feminist issue, parental influence is important but there are other forces at work as well.

E.g.

• colditz experience with a PE teacher
• the fact that only 8% of sports media coverage is about female sport
• the fact that women athletes are still judged by their looks and not just on what they have achieved in their sport
• the fact that women who are interested in / play sport are characterised as unfeminine, butch or even lesbians
• the fact that (often male) coaches bully female athletes to keep their weight down, regardless of the health consequences
• the fact that sports facilities prioritise male team bookings over female team bookings
• the fact that women out cycling / running are subject to derogatory / sexual comments shouted at them

If it was just down to parental influence the gap between girls and boys playing sport would not be as big as it is.

Obesity is a red herring, girls can be non physically active but control their weight through eating (disorders).

Sanjeev, well done on your children, it sounds like your daughter has a healthy and positive attitude to sport.

Hmm.

• colditz experience with a PE teacher - i had several barking male sports teachers, so you can't extrapolate this
• the fact that only 8% of sports media coverage is about female sport - can't argue it is lower, but the women's World Cup (footie) and Six Nations rugby is shown live now; athletics is equal; Olympics is equal. It is improving.
• the fact that women athletes are still judged by their looks and not just on what they have achieved in their sport - don't agree. Jess Ennis/Vicky Pendleton happen to be pretty, but also happen to be World Champions. Looks may increase earnings outside the sport, but they are judged by medals, not looks. To say otherwise insults their achievements and ability.
• the fact that women who are interested in / play sport are characterised as unfeminine, butch or even lesbians - sorry, but this attitude sounds 30 years out of date. See above, see my daughter, see my wife, my sister in law. You can't have your previous point and this one anyway, they contradict!
• the fact that (often male) coaches bully female athletes to keep their weight down, regardless of the health consequences - all coaches are bullies. I box and swim, I have male and female coaches. You cannot be nice and coach at the highest level. It is about being pushed to your limit. Read Chris Boardman's autobiography, and the consequences on health for top cyclists. In competition, only the most dedicated get to the top, so bullying as you describe it is gender-neutral.
• the fact that sports facilities prioritise male team bookings over female team bookings - I would be interested to hear more about this.
• the fact that women out cycling / running are subject to derogatory / sexual comments shouted at them - I agree this is awful. White van man is about a million years behind on the evolutionary scale.

Sorry to bang on, but sport is a passion of mine, and I think some people hide behind lazy excuses when they just really can't be arsed

The thing with cycling that the OP brought up is that it isn't necessarily a sport. I don't intend taking it up as a sport (though I love sport) but as a mode of transport that is cheap and healthy. For our daughters, cycling can be part of an active lifestyle (which doesn't have to include sport at all) and independence. I think the independence issue is at least as big a deal. Having a way to get around that isn't tied to your parents, public transport routes and timetables, or a few miles radius is a big deal. Having cycling simply be a more common form of transport would probably help, but I wonder if the lack of girls on bikes might be more to do with the fact their activities are already more curtailed anyway, so there isn't really an increase in independence in the first place. - I don't know this, just positing it as a possibility. Would be sad but hardly surprising if true.

Sanjeev did your barking PE teachers make you feel uncomfortable sexually?

Did they put up with the girls in the class heckling you in a sexually aggressive manner whilst you wore clothes that made you feel your changing body was on show to everyone?

Did you live in a society that objectified your sex and sexualized your identity?

Were you part of the group that is considered the gatekeepers of sex? Were you part of the group that is considered sexual 'prey' by much of society?

Put them in an all girls school as mine were and they are very sporty. My girls always were sporty and cycled. One ran last year's marathon. If there are no boys in your school then nothing is a boy thing and everything is possible for girls which is why girls do so much better ins ingle sex schooling I suppose. Also we have always been keen for the girls (and boys) to take physical risks whether that be skiing (one girl did a ski instructor qualification and is pretty good; both girls had a horse and show jumped), sailing, scuba diving or even just making your way as a teenager through London at night on night buses.

Xenia - as I say above, the all girls schools near me do not appear to have many cyclists. But the boys ones do. Single sex education isn't a panacea for a sexist society.

Sorry, am at risk of hijacking OPs thread about cycling. But will just reply to Sanjeev:

• sexist PE teachers - Colditz' experience was an example, the bullying / barking aspect was not the most worrying thing, it was that she didn't address the sexual bullying in the class.

• media coverage - It might be improving, I haven't seen the stats yet.

• women athletes are still judged by their looks - people thought it funny that Frankie Boyle called Rebecca Adlington "someone who's looking at themselves in the back of a spoon" on prime time TV.

• women who play sport are characterised as unfeminine, butch or even lesbians - it may be 30 years out of date but it still exists. I should say that women and men are guilty of this mindset (there's a 2007 report from Women's Sport and Fitness Foundation about this but couldn't find it today, sorry).

• male coaches bully female athletes to keep their weight down - yes they may do this to men as well but it is unacceptable, and with men, it doesn't have long term consequences for their fertility.

• sports facilities prioritise male team bookings - this is an historical situation - they will honour existing bookings year after year after year meaning that new female teams never get a chance to book. It's particularly bad for female rugby and football, also affects disability sports.

See [http://wsff.org.uk/publications/reports/teenage-drop-out] for issues specific to teenage girls dropping out of sport.

I don't want to make excuses for people who are lazy either, but if people are turned off sport we need to reduce the barriers to encourage them to take part, not barrack them.

Sorry - link again

wsff.org.uk/publications/reports/teenage-drop-out

Beachcomber - one of them made everyone feel uncomfortable. I wont go into details. He never stopped us doing what we wanted to do.

The girls would watch us at rugby and football, yes. Comments were made of that nature, yes. We were all hormonal teenagers once!

My wife and sister in law live in the same society. They both run marathons, half-marathons and 10k's. Because they make the effort, not excuses. I admire them for what they achieve.

If you want to perpetuate FUD and scare girls into not participating, you keep right on with this. I will continue to positively encourage. Let's see who has the most positive influence on female sporting achievement.

Daisy, just one of your points; - women athletes are still judged by their looks - people thought it funny that Frankie Boyle called Rebecca Adlington "someone who's looking at themselves in the back of a spoon" on prime time TV.

Rebecca Addlington is quite possibly about to become the first woman to ever retain two Olympic swimming golds. She is stunning. Martin Johnson used to be compared to one of the stone heads on Easter Island when he played. 'Peter Reid's got a monkey's heid (head)' was regularly sung by 20 thousand Newcastle fans when he played against them for Sunderland. If you think sportsmen don't get abuse for their appearance, you have not been to many football matches

I have no wish to scare girls into not participating and I think it is odd that you have chosen to imply that I do. I fail to see how me asking you questions on an internet forum is going to do that anyway. If you disagree with what I say, fair enough, but best not to get personal about it eh?

I don't think it is positive to minimize the discomfort that girls and women can feel in contexts where their bodies are on show to men and boys.

Pretending that it is the same thing as men and boys bodies being on show to women/girls is disingenuous.

Actually, I do think single sex schooling improves girls' outcomes considerably but I know many people don't agree. If it is to do so properly though, the facilities need to be as good as those of boys' schools and I am not sure that is always the case. Certainly it wasn't the case for my school (in days of yore admittedly) which had very limited scientific and sports options available compared to my brother's school at least. However, just the fact that what options we did have were open to everyone at the school enabled me to do some sport even though I was shockingly rubbish at it and developed early physically - both things which would probably have restricted my sporting opportunities at a mixed school.

As a result, I was keen to try other sports outside school and until I recently(ish) had DD and got very fat I was always involved in some sort of physical activity or other without any embarrassment as to my essential lack of talent.

To give her the confidence to do and try everything, I will definitely send DD to an all girls school if the option to do so is there.

Just as a side project Sanjeev, I read the local freebie paper on my way into work every morning (Metro) I count the number of mentions of men and the number of mentions of women in the sports pages. It's rarely above 8%. Today, for example there were 22 stories/mentions of men and only one of a (retired) female athlete. It's not unusual to see no mentions at all. The hashtag is #halfthepopulation if you want to go and check.