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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Any women here working on IT / Electronics / Computer Science?

47 replies

MumOnBus · 08/03/2012 19:48

Just curious whether you'd find something inspirational to say about your career choice?

I find it appalling that in 2009 only "16% of all students on undergraduate computer science degrees in the UK" were girls [1] -- but I doubt this figure has improved in the intervening years.

[1] www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jan/10/fewer-girls-taking-computer-science (I know this link is a few weeks old, but being the International Women's Day made me dig it up)

Any comments?

OP posts:
ByTheSea · 09/03/2012 20:24

I work in IT. I'm currently a business analyst (within IT dept) but have been a programmer, systems analyst, project leader and project manager in IT. I took a career break for several years, but have been in IT coming up on 25 years.

gaelicsheep · 09/03/2012 20:27

I tell you one thing positive about it. If you're a working mum - which presumably we all are - then there is nothing better than some challenging problem to take your mind off missing the children, or other home worries. I can immerse myself in database stuff, for example, and it'll suddenly be 5pm and I'll hardly have noticed the day going by. You can really get your teeth into things and it can be so satisfying.

FirstLastEverything · 09/03/2012 20:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ByTheSea · 09/03/2012 20:35

FirstLast, no, I'm in the private sector. I used to make more as a project manager though. Oh well, I prefer the BA side. Your work sounds interesting though.

CokeFan · 09/03/2012 20:36

I used to work in IT (software engineer for 9 years before DD).

I've just registered on the Apple Developer program and hope to have an app out in the next couple of weeks (not a very exciting one but I've been a SAHM for nearly 4 years).

I've always enjoyed coding. I think there's nothing quite like the buzz you get from solving a problem or fixing a bug.

gaelicsheep · 09/03/2012 20:40

Agree totally! But there's nothing more frustrating than working with people whose jobs are not IT based (as I do at the moment) and who simply do not appreciate the work that's gone into solving or creating something!

ProfessorIncognito · 09/03/2012 20:44

I've namechanged for this as anyone who knows me would recognise it straight away.

I am a senior IT Manager at a University, but fell into IT by accident. My degree is in Philosophy and I'm also a qualified teacher, but discovered after a couple of years of teaching that I hated children and killing them would be frowned upon. I quit my teaching job and accidently got a job on a helpdesk. The rest, they say, is history.

I spent 4 years doing general helpdesk and then 7 years doing software support, tracking down conflicts and registry errors, building installers and lots of other fun stuff before moving into proper management. Now I do very little technical stuff and my skills in that area are very out of date, but instead I run projects, write policy and strategy and manage a huge budget and a small legion of minions.

I am an ambassador for the regional education business partnership and regularly go into schools to promote working in IT. There are 8 women in the whole of my department. Two senior managers, one middle manager, one programmer, two helpdesk and two admin.

In my experience women in IT tend to gravitate to management. When I started out in the early 90s I came across a lot of sexism in the workplace. I left my first job when I lost out on a new position that went to the managers golfing buddy. The back slapping made me want to puke, so I moved on and up. I also lost count of the times when someone would ask to speak to my manager and was gobsmaked when I said that I was the manager.

I have no idea whether it would be better now, but its still very male dominated and out of 40 applications for a post you can bet that only 5 or 6 will be from women.

theITgirl · 09/03/2012 20:45

Also in IT
Did Maths, F Maths and Physics at A level, plus O Level Computing in the sixth form we had a Sinclair Spectrum, a BBC Micro and a Commadore 64 - you now know exactly how old I am!
Started a straight Maths degree, but very Pure so I swapped to Computing at the end of my first year, doing a modular course and had picked the right options for swapping instead of starting again.
When I started work I really had to wait a year for the industry to catch up. Then was working on what was really early internet stuff and used the Janet network etc.
I have stayed techie but always with a lot of client/user interaction so found my 'feminine' skills have given me an advantage over a lot of my colleagues, some of whom have been better at the technical stuff.

Now I have the perfect job. Very techie role in a secondary school (they don't like RM) so we build everything from scratch. AND it is term time only and I leave early on Fridays for the school run.

SuchProspects · 09/03/2012 20:48

I have a BSc in Maths and Computing. I was at university a couple of decades ago and people were lamenting the lack of women then, but they didn't do anything at all about it, even though they knew there were things (like putting certain course in the first year instead of the third) that would likely attract more women and keep more on the course.

As a career I found it great in most respects, I love the variety, the problem solving focus, the feeling of accomplishment, the creative aspects. I also think it could be a great career to mold around a family if you are savvy and set yourself up as a consultant with a good niche skill set well before you start having kids. You can earn well and pretty much set your own office hours (though there will possibly be lots of late nights at home meeting deadlines). However I haven't put this into practice!

I disagree with the idea that gender doesn't matter. Sex matters less, but there tends to be a relatively narrow personality type that fits in with many techie environments and it is not one that celebrates characteristics typically female. It tends to be quite curt in many ways. I thrive in it, but I think women on the whole tend to be socialized away from that sort of communication style.

When it comes to getting more women into computing Emma Mulqueeny has a lot of interesting stuff to say: Year 8 is too late

threeleftfeet · 09/03/2012 20:58

I'm currently studying digital media as a mature student, which includes programming alongside more design-based creative modules and marketing.

I'm aiming for a career in web design. The ratio of female to male on my degree is good, approaching 50% I think. I reckon digital media possibly attacts more women as there is an obvious creative side to it. To excel you've got to be good at coding however and some of the best coders on my degree are women.

There are lots of jobs in web, interesting ones too as the field is changing so quickly. It's not an industry you need to do an internship in, for example, the placements are paid. One of our lecturers has advised that as students / new graduates we shouldn't take on freelance work for less than £35 an hour / £250 a day.

Freelance appeals to me as a mum so I can have more control over my hours. Or, if I do go down the employee route, there are a fair few web companies round here that support working from home and other flexible working policies. Also you're more likely to find companies in this industry that are experimenting with alternative work structures, such as involving all employees in major decision making, which is refreshing IMO.

I would say though that although there are a fair few women in this industry, the straightforward developer / pure coding roles do seem to be men IME.

ByTheWay1 · 09/03/2012 21:02

I have generally gravitated towards traditionally male careers - worked as an auxiliary Coastguard, did Marine radio and Radar HNC, worked for a government department in research and development in computing, then managed a worldwide computer network in charge of 8 (male) support engineers... working on call, 24/7 flying off all over the world - a great job - 'TIL-I-HAD-KIDS...

took a career break and now a dinner lady (how much more "female" a role could I get)

Both "sides" have their pluses - I get a lot more camaraderie and general support as a dinner lady, the pre-kids "male" side is much more competitive and challenging and better paid - all the pre-kids jobs required a time sacrifice above and beyond the usual working day.

I may go back to a computing/engineering type environment one day, but am enjoying some stress free down time for now!

MamaChocoholic · 09/03/2012 21:16

my background is maths, but I now work as a statistician in a genetics lab, and most of my time is spent coding. it's the best part of my job, but also a means to an end. without my code we couldn't extract meaning from some enormous datasets. my work has done things like discover new genes linked to human disease, which is pretty cool. you need maths/computing to understand how the human body works.

GrimmaTheNome · 09/03/2012 21:32

I disagree with the idea that gender doesn't matter

It probably depends exactly what sort of thing you're doing. My sort of thing - scientific software - its vitally important to be able to communicate well (as well as write algorithms that do awesome stuff of course Wink). You have to be able to design user interfaces that make it easy for busy scientists to do difficult things. (My little joke is that while we do need Software Architects, we also need 'Software Interior Designers' - and IMO women are rather good at this. ) And (hated but necessary task) write good documentation.

GrimmaTheNome · 09/03/2012 21:37

a BBC Micro and a Commadore 64 - you now know exactly how old I am!
several years younger than me - my DH(then BF) got a C64 a couple of years into our postgrad years.

My first introduction to coding was Fortran. Mainframe. On CARDS !! Grin

FirstLastEverything · 09/03/2012 21:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

notquitenormal · 09/03/2012 21:58

I would say thay our, large global, IT department is mostly male but dominated by female in management and supervisor positions. The heads of departments like desktop support, and helpdesk and more senior roles like global systems director, integration & infrastructure and perhaps half of the individual project leads etc. are all female. Senior VPs are still both male, but they're coming up to retirement and I can only see women in the wings for the jobs...we'll see how that one pans out.

Same situation in finance & HR.
Sales & engineering still a total boys club though.

GrimmaTheNome · 09/03/2012 22:08

computing has actually gone backwards a bit in school terms
well, yes - 2-3 decades ago there wasn't much you could do with a computer if you couldn't write code yourself. (And it had to be clever code to do stuff with so little memory, not even much disk.)

I think my DD did something sort of programmy at her junior school. As you say, nowt much in IT but a bit of control programming in electronics.

Reckon we should teach our DDs to knit? - if you can follow a knitting pattern you can code. Grin

threeleftfeet · 10/03/2012 00:04

" if you can follow a knitting pattern you can code."

Indeed.

Open Source embroidery worth a look - great stuff Smile

StealthPolarBear · 10/03/2012 00:07

I was a programmer and now a public health analyst. I think as with everything its good to find somethig thatvplays to your strengths and you feel passionate about. But if you like maths at school but don't see what jobs it leads to - there are loads out there, they're just not he sorts of jobs you know about at school!

GrimmaTheNome · 10/03/2012 00:10

they're just not he sorts of jobs you know about at school!
quite so. and for our DDs, they may not be ones we old farts know about yet either. I remember at 13 when we were discussing what we'd be, I announced I'd do a job which didn't exist yet. At that stage no-one was writing the sort of software I do commercially so I was right Grin

StealthPolarBear · 10/03/2012 00:20

Yes, very true, I suppose children today have more computer knowledge that we do. At school I had little idea what a computer was, no idea what programming was, and no Jess it would fit my skills and interests. And that there were and still are jobs doing it, in most areas of England

ReallyTired · 10/03/2012 16:19

Children are scarily bright. It makes it hard to keep them safe as well.

One of my son's friends has taught himself c# at ten years old and written a game. A class mate who is a girl has created her own website without adult help using this website.

www.weebly.com/

School ICT is a complete and utter joke. There is no programming or learning about networks. It is also a challenge to keep children safe,

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