What would you tell an 11 YO about feminism?

[AgentZigzag]

Last summer I gave DD a very brief introduction to feminism, we were out on a walk and without a hint of a lecture () I told her about a couple of perspectives, how women were treated in the past/are treated in different cultures etc.

It has changed the way she thinks because a couple of times she's asked whether I thought something was sexist, and I've pointed a couple of things out to her from the news and stuff.

What can I add to that to make it meaningful to her do you think?

Or should I not bring it up specifically again and just leave it with the introduction?

As a feminist who grew up with a feminist mother I can't really remember anyone explaining feminism to me. It was just there, in everyday situations where my mother would challenge someone or something. In everyday conversations about work, wages, politics, clothing and relationships, society and current affairs.

I was aware also that my parents had a very equal relationship and that my mother had financial independence, free time, outside interests, and she was always opinionated on everything from equal pay to pornography. I think it was impossible not to be influenced and yet she never went out of her way to explicitly discuss feminism when I was young.

Is everybody else in this thread taking this on board too? I assume 11 is too young to be telling her that she has a 1 in 4 chance of being raped/sexually assaulted - what should the OP do? The bare facts might frighten her. Although, I guess rapists are no respecter of age. Is she at risk too, even at 11? Maybe she should be told.

I usually communicate information to my children in age-appropriate ways Sanjeev.

That's what normal parents do.

Interesting. We have a parents evening soon. I shall be pursuing this matter, accompanied by your figures, with her teacher and heads at the school. I would imagine an all-girl school with women in every senior post will have a position on this. It's too important to only tell my daughter.

Good stuff, Sanjeev. Consciousness-raising is an excellent enterprise.

Why are some posters being quite snippy with Sanjeev or at least It appears that way.

the biggest reason that things improve is because attitudes change

Correct!!

But you see, Sanjeev, attitudes don't automatically change for the better -which is why it's important to keep awareness and discussion going.

It's interesting that you think that by sending your daughter to an all girls school with high academic standards, etc. she will be protected from misogyny. What happens when she leaves, though? Believe me, even if she finds herself in a position of great privilege, going into one of the traditionally (and still) male dominated career paths that you mention, she won't find herself sheltered from misogynistic attitudes (or at least she wouldn't at the moment). Wouldn't you prefer it that she understood that there are reasons why these attitudes still exist, that they can be fought against, rather than that she has to try and deal with them - and will be more likely to be untermined by them - whilst still under the illusion that she lives in an 'equal' society?

I see your point about young men being at greater risk of getting attacked, but to my mind that makes an understanding of feminism and the reasons why it's still so crucial (i.e. continuing misogyny) so important for boys as well as girls.

PlumpDog - I see what you mean about awareness. Ours are mixed race kids - I am white Anglo-Saxon, my wife's dad was from the Caribbean - so there may be plenty of obstacles as they make their way in the world. We all have those though.

We live in the north-west, whereas the centre for economic activity in the UK is still London and south-east centric, which means that that is where most of the jobs are. Neither of my kids have gone to private school, so they have the fight against the privileged elite that hold most of the positions of power.

Most people in life have obstacles to overcome, to get where they want to be. It is up to her to get out there and challenge the old views and attitudes. Stuff that has been around for thousands of years does not change overnight.

Sanjeev - your family sounds similar in several ways to the one I grew up in, and you sound similar to my (very well intentioned) father, who took the view that things were getting better and that anyone with skills, ambition and intelligence could overcome anything, therefore 'political' issues that might arise regarding his children's experience in relation to our (and his) mixed heritage, and his daughters' experience in (what he regarded as no longer) a 'man's world' simply weren't up for discussion.
He did a great deal for us, and I wouldn't hesitate to describe him as a supportive parent - and a feminist, of sorts, in some respects - but I think I would have benefitted massively from more open discussion of traces of sexism, racism, culturalism (and probably several other -isms ) that do run through many workplaces, much of the media, etc. I think it would have saved me time and increased my confidence if I'd been able to 'see' some of those things for what they were and still are at a younger age.

Plumpdog - all valid points. I never meant to sound as though issues were off-limits and not worth discussing. It's interesting because you sound like a pretty good blueprint for my daughter!

My experiences are limited, because I have only ever worked for one company - a huge global brand. They make massive efforts in all directions re diversity. They run 'bring your daughter to work' days, where women host and run the event. I have had umpteen female first, second, third etc. line-managers (in what is a pretty technical area), and the current world-wide CEO is a woman. I can see that not all companies are like this - yet! But I believe it is coming. It is all about education, which is why I am interested to find out her school's position in some of the areas that have been mentioned in here.

Thanks for the reply, Sanjeev.
ISWYM - and I think it can be difficult (especially on discussion boards like these) to strike a balance. I certainly don't think it's a good idea to present children with an 'agenda' or a view of themselves as 'victims' or hard done by, and I think it's far from constructive to encourage people to see prejudice or malice where none exists. Also, ideally, we wouldn't have to have an awareness of prejudices/antagonism/jealousy - and it's great growing up somewhere where virtually none are apparent.
My parents ostensibly took the view that if someone was sexist/racist then that was their problem and it was possible to get past it - a view based on the idea that people with such views are probably quite stupid and so won't be found in positions of power in the sort of environments that they envisaged their children working in. I think that approach worked quite well for them...
I've taken a very different path from them. Particularly in recent years I've encountered very little direct discrmination (and, interestingly, where it's easier to pinpoint and define as discrmination, it can be easier to deal with, obviously). More often, though, certain colleagues have done or said things that have just made me very and I think these things often do stem from subtle but very real prejudices related to gender/ethnicity/culture.
It's not necessarily been that I've wanted to 'make an issue' of these things, and for the most part I don't believe that they've been intenetional or malicious, but I certainly think that I'm better able to deal with them - and take them less personally - having developed networks and knowledge that allow me to look at them dispassionately and put them in context.
For me, feminsit discussion is a huge part of that.

Thanks for your replies and views, all really interesting.

'Let her keep an open mind, rather than trapping her in the politics of your youth.'

I don't have a hard line feminist political view, and never have. I know more about the theoretical positioning rather than have strong views on how this applies to real life, although obviously I can make some connections myself.

I'm not able to work for health reasons, and DD sees that we have a traditional division of labour at home, some of it for convenience and other bits because it's the best person for the job. I don't think the choices I've made in my life will necessarily dictate how DDs understanding of the world and her place in it will run, how she thinks about things will influence her more in my mind.

She understands a bit about rape (from reading) and I've broached how things in relationships aren't all they might seem. She's read the first couple of Twilight books (yeah, I know ) and I've said about the way Edward is with the mumbling girl could be seen as him trying to control her, so she knows it's not all hearts and flowers. I'll not let her down just yet about how shit it really all can be

Honestly though, no lectures or preaching are involved when I do talk to her about 'stuff', I'd soon notice the 1000 yard stare if she wasn't listening or interested

Sounds to me like you're doing well, AZZ.
Like the Twilight readings, too... - far more fun and interesting (and useful IMHO) to have a good chat about stuff like that than write it off as utter crap.
I think the tricky bit can be addressing those kind of ambivalent areas - often the most interesting to talk about in real life, though.