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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A sad sight...

62 replies

yellowraincoat · 20/02/2012 14:15

Yesterday as I was driving up the road I saw a BMX track. 5 or 6 lads using it while 3 or 4 girls stood watching them. No girls biking, no boys watching.

Why do you see this so much? Why are so many women standing watching while men do stuff? It really depressed me and made me feel that things will never move on or change.

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SinicalSanta · 20/02/2012 16:10

It's awful isn't it.

Thinking back to that age I was afraid to do anything like that in case I got jeered at. Maybe girls are more conditioned to please/take jeering more to heart whereas boys just get on with it?

WipsGlitter · 20/02/2012 16:12

The were doing stuff. They were interacting with their friends.

SinicalSanta · 20/02/2012 16:14

They could interact with their friends doing anything else.

'Watching Boys Do Stuff' together doesn't seem like that exciting a hobby to me

WipsGlitter · 20/02/2012 16:20

How old were they? I think it was good they were out in a mixed group. If they were teenagers it's more about being together than what is being done. Maybe they didn't own bikes. Maybe they had all just come from watching the girls do show jumping, or running or something. Watching boys is a very exciting hobby at a certain age.

TheDogTheDogHesAtItAgain · 20/02/2012 16:44

This particular group may well have just come back from watching the girls doing something, but in my own teenage experience (and that of my friends) they wouldn't have been. I spent most of my time hanging around after boys at that age - listening to their band practice, watching them play computer games - on the promise that we'd do stuff together after they'd finished (said "stuff" generally involved them trying to persuade me to go further with them sexually than I wanted Sad).

Looking back, it was bloody pathetic. I have no idea why I did that, but all the other girls did the same. I was obviously desperate for male attention, which I wouldn't have got if I'd been jamming with my own band or following my own interests, because it wasn't the done thing for boys to watch girls doing stuff.

I wish I hadn't been like that, because it set patterns of passivity that were hard to grow out of as an adult.

yellowraincoat · 20/02/2012 16:49

"Watching boys is a very exciting hobby at that age".

And it seems that that continues into adulthood.

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sportsfanatic · 20/02/2012 16:57

True t'is pathetic. I would be OK if boys were equally keen on standing around watching girls "doing stuff". Unfortunately, lots of boys are more keen on doing girls than seeing girls doing stuff.

Always found professional audience girls pretty baffling - the passivity of it all I mean. Akin to non-verbal simpering.

upahill · 20/02/2012 17:01

Perhaps they have more sense than end up with a broken arm like DS1, broken ribs DS1's friend, knocked uncoucious (another friend) etc.

I think I would rather stand round with my mates than BMX tbh.
Grin

Ok I know, wrong answer!

SecondTimeLucky · 20/02/2012 17:03

It does continue into adulthood sadly. MIL is always very confused why I wouldn't consider watching DH play hockey or cricket or whatever a fun day out for myself and the children. I make a Hmm face and politely refrain from commenting.

StewieGriffinsMom · 20/02/2012 17:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheDogTheDogHesAtItAgain · 20/02/2012 17:19

It's crap, and it's one of the main things that I warn my own girls against. In that pattern, the boys got to do the stuff that they wanted, for as long as they liked, in the knowledge that afterwards they got to feel up a girl who would still be hanging around, pathetically grateful for the attention Sad.

I keep telling my two dds never to drop their own interests for a boy. Will be interested to see whether they listen to me.

sportsfanatic · 20/02/2012 17:19

Id rather my girls break their arm trying things than never discover whether or not they actually enjoy stuff.

Agree. Actually takes me back to when my daughters were early teens. They did attract an audience of boys because they were the only ones acrobatic enough to run 20 yards, grab a rope hanging from a tree branch, launch themselves over the stream in the village and swing far enough to reach the other bank instead of landing in the water...a much better way of impressing the boys than standing around simpering - if impress the boys had been what they wanted. Which it wasn't because "doing stuff" was more interesting. Plenty of time for boys when they hadn't better things to do.Grin

StewieGriffinsMom · 20/02/2012 17:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KRITIQ · 20/02/2012 17:33

I think the messages start very early, perhaps more so now than even 20 years ago. Boys are supposed to do stuff, be active, take risks, lead the way. Girls are supposed to be passive, think of others' needs first, tend to their appearance, not to be too uppity of full of themselves.

This idea is reinforced by everything from toys, games, stories and clothing targeting the respective genders, social traditions, family expectations, the media, etc. It's a brave girl that bucks the trend and does things that aren't considered "right" for girls, and they can expect to get alot of flak for it. It's also a brave boy that bucks the trend and does things that aren't considered "right" for girls, and they, too, can expect to get alot of flak for it. If you step too far outside the norm, you can expect not to be popular, perhaps not even be accepted, possibly bullied and not even necessarily supported by trusted adults around you.

I remember it was somewhat like that even when I was a kid in the 70's, but I think now the messages about what is "girl" and what is "boy" are even more pervasive, with the genders even more demarcated than ever before. It's depressing because when you pigeon hole children because of their sex (or class, ethnicity, disability, whatever,) their aspirations and potential are constricted. That's crap for all of us, crap for society.

I don't think it's fair to blame individual girls or boys for not bucking the trend, or insist that there was something inherently "wrong" with the girls in this scenario because they weren't pushing in and being like the boys (or blaming the boys for not being more inclusive and trying to encourage the girls to get involved.)

yellowraincoat · 20/02/2012 17:38

I'm not blaming those girls in particular, not at all. It was a scene I saw for one second, for all I know the girls had been on the bikes all morning.

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upahill · 20/02/2012 17:39

Id rather my girls break their arm trying things than never discover whether or not they actually enjoy stuff.

I bloody wouldn't - two years on and the lad is in constant pain with his elbow, still having appointments,scars all over his elbow and on his stomach where he landed that haven't faded, a fit lad but can't do press ups or lean forward on his arms because it hurts too much. You would rather that for your girls for the sake of a sport. Confused
Fuckin' bonkers statement.

yellowraincoat · 20/02/2012 17:43

So you'd rather people didn't do any sport upahill? In case they get injured?

I was discussing injuries with my partner at the weekend - he's broken almost everything at one point, from being on his bike, to swinging in a tree, to climbing on something he shouldn't.

I've never broken anything. We go climbing now and he is so much happier to take risks than me.

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upahill · 20/02/2012 17:46

I dont think it is true that girls just stand back and watch sports tbh.

Go to Gisbourn Forest, Whinlater, Grizedale and you will see women mountain biking with the lads. Go to Lee Quary and again you will see women with full body armour on doing jumps.

My caving club has a very high % of females,certainly active ones that turn out for trips.
Same with archery.

Go to a kick boxing club. There are more and more women going through their grades and becoming black belts.

Sure women do sometimes spectate. The headmistress at the school my son goes to is a huge footie fan and has a season ticket. I spectate in a rather niche sport.

When I was 14 or 15 I was not interested in sport at all. I would have been more than happy hanging out at the skate park with the crowd with the stereo on ( oops, I did) Didn't make me sad. I was not interested in boarding but wanted to be around my peers and in with the crowd - and bloody good it was.

There is a group of women that I work with that are part of a netball team and they are in their twenties and have carried on being in teams since their school days.
I think women in sport is alive and well tbh.

upahill · 20/02/2012 17:48

Nah, it just seemed a mad sentence after just watching DS1 wincing when he stood up a few minutes ago and after two years it aint getting any better. Bit sensitive why anyone would want their kid to feel like that.

upahill · 20/02/2012 17:49

........and I should know better, a very nice Highland hospital stiched me up nicely after coming off my mountain bike a year last April. I have minimal scarring!!

Chandon · 20/02/2012 17:52

Haha, I used to watch boys playing football when I was 13.

As I had nothing better to do.

Too old to play with them, too young to know how to be "girly" around them, we just stood and stared.

Am now into sports myself so it all turned out o.k. Wink

yellowraincoat · 20/02/2012 17:53

It is fair to say that a lot of women are involved with sport. But not in anywhere near the numbers that men are.

And I have never seen a man watch a woman play any sport unless it was lads watching us run at school to see our breasts jiggle.

The viewing figures for women's football is hardly sky high is it?

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TeiTetua · 20/02/2012 18:05

I have a feeling that "everyone knows" that boys are going to be out there doing dangerous things and some of them suffering the consequences, and it's just part of the landscape (ladscape?) whereas if there's talk of girls doing the same, people worry about it.

And as for spectator sports, it does seem to be true that when women do them, there tends to be a element of display. Women running in tiny shorts and bare midriffs. Beach volleyball in bikinis. This insane discussion of women boxers in little skirts. Maybe it's based on an assumption that men would be doing the thing so much better that there has to be an extra reason to make the women worth watching.

SardineQueen · 20/02/2012 18:19

thedog your post TheDogTheDogHesAtItAgain Mon 20-Feb-12 16:44:56 took me right back!

sportsfanatic · 20/02/2012 18:31

Anyone see the World Cup cycling over the weekend (BBC2)? Now there were women "doing something". And no, they weren't being watched because of the streamlined cycle suits - the blokes were equally tightly streamlined.

I stand by what I said about I'd rather see girls "doing something" and risk an injury than be passive. Both my daughters have had injuries (I was also a visitor to A and E on occasions as a kid) but at least we didn't turn into the sort of helpless types who can't lift anything heavy or stand around waiting for a big strong man to change our wheel when we have a puncture Grin