girl's schools

[lorcana]

What do you think of single sex schooling for girls ? Can these schools be bastions of excellence and powerful female only spaces ? Or not ?

Grimma I'm no spring chicken but young enough to have classmates who were titled "wags" so not that old either!

and they're still churning out a lot of nurses and teachers now even though the A level grades are very good. I don't know of any recent grads who went into medicine, girls with an interest in that field were (and still are seemingly) nudged towards nursing or physio at a push!

nothing wrong with nursing and teaching, but what was/is off is funnelling any girls with interest in medical stuff into medicine, and any academic ones into teaching, instead of the full market of options available to them

Sounds like there's something wrong with the careers/uni advice at this particular school TBH.

well Grimma you could say that about a lot of the posts on both sides because most replies have been anecdotal, including the very good stories, so don't know why you only directed that at my experience. I never claimed my post was anything but anecdotal personal experience

But Grimma, surely we need to challenge what you describe within mixed schools, rather than seeing segregation as the answer?

I think we should be changing the next generation's expectations of girls' achievement; and I don't think we will do this effectively through segregation.

A different all girls school I worked at did the same FWIW, funnelled any of them with a mild interest in medically or creative interest into health and social care or textiles and away from the "harder" subjects that could have the same end goal but are less limiting! It annoyed me, although I think I feel that in general school subjects get too applied and specific too soon in this country so I don't automatically think of it as a single sex issue

I went to a (very academic) girls' school, and found it very cosy, if a little cut off from the real world - fantastically close friendships and very little bullying, and no focus whatsoever on clothes, make up, looks etc..slightly weird in retrospect but very cocooned from those sorts of pressures. And lots of emphasis on academic/career achievement - produced masses of doctors, lawyers etc.

But I was quite lucky in that I had long-term male friends out of school, (and had been co-ed for primary) so didn't have so much of the 'help, a man, how do I talk to him' panic that the totally separate world generated for some people.

I would send any daughters I may have in future to a girls school, no question.

I went to an all girls faith school and it was a nurturing environment in which we all flourished. Some of us were very academic (myself for eg) and we were steered right by excellent teachers, some of us not so academic (inc. a couple of my good mates) but they were also well served by some excellent staff - we still all had a sense that we were worth something in and of ourselves.

I know that not all girls school will have been like that - I'm thinking selective intake grammars and independents perhaps, as they may be more competitive and hot housed - but I would definitely use a school I felt had a similar ethos to the one I went to.

RRR - sure, I know this is mostly anecdote - so's what I'm saying mostly. All I meant was I'm not sure if the case you know is typical - I hope not.

tethers - sure, I don't think segregation is the answer. For those whom it suits in good schools, its one solution. FWIW I don't think I'd have liked a girls school myself; I didn't give a shit whether science was perceived as 'boyish' and I knew without any steering that I was going to uni to do Chemistry - but not all youngsters are so thickskinnned single minded.

My experience was much like Mintys, and I went on from there to study engineering. It was strict uniform, so none of the obsession with fashion or attracting the boys (at least not IN school). I remember they closed the home economics classrooms and made them into extra science labs. Churned out loads of doctors and dentists, etc.

I wish I could afford to send my girls to a similar school.

I remember they closed the home economics classrooms and made them into extra science labs.
Ah, there the better solution surely - is for the girls to have food tech plus lots of science labs (and electronics and DT...) and for the boys' school to have exactly the same. (DDs 'twin' school has just built its food tech facility at last!)

My daughters went to Habs and NLCS. Just about every school with good results for girls is single sex which says it all. I went to a single sex school too.
I haven't bothered to check rankings.ft.com/secondary-schools/secondary-schools-2011 but I bet the best schools in terms of A level results for girls are not mixed ones.

(By the way it will be girls' schools, not girl's schools (unless there were only one girl in the school which is unlikely). Hopefully girls' schools are very good at teaching use of apostrophes).

I think there are very strong arguments for teaching girls without the presence of boys, particularly for sciences and mathematics. Testosterone-heavy classrooms are quite off putting places for girls - better to give them their own space for the subjects where boys gather in large numbers.

DD began attending an all girls school in year 7.
I had some misgivings as she had thoroughly loved her mixed prep and is most certainly not a girly girl.

I have to say it's been a resounding success. At a time when so many girls become worried about their appearances to a detrimental degree, the school fosters a lets-not-worry-about-it policy that is utterly refreshing.
The unifrom is daft. But they all look daft so they don't care a kipper.

Also, the food is delicious and varied and plentiful which I'm sure is helpful at this stage.

The best thing is that no-one need feel conscious of themselves when they eat a huge bowl of pasta, or train for cross country in PE knickers, or come top in maths.

I'm not saying any of these things are impossible to do in a mixed environment but they can be less easy. I recall feeling on display as a pupil in a mixed school.

I think that unfortunately it is hard to untangle the pros and cons of single sex education for girls from the fact that most girls' schools are indys or grammars.

Xenia, while I am sure you're right about the highest performers being single sex girls' schools, I strongly suspect that the boys also get the best results in single sex schools, simply because so many indies & grammars are single sex.

I tend to be pro, having attended a single sex school - I didn't experience any pushiness/academic hothousing - but that is probably because it was a not-very-academic comprehensive. Certainly compared to friends in mixed schools it was much easier to be good at maths/science without it being an issue - since everyone taking physics is by definition a girl, then you're not being strange by doing so!

Very sadly looking at the 'academically excellent' school that is one of dd's options when she goes to secondary it does seem that the 'girls don't do science' thing still holds, as a large majority of physics A level students and all of the electronics A level students are boys. So just for that reason I'd look hard at a girls school if we had one as an option (sadly we don't).

I suppose overall I'd choose a good girls' school over an equally good mixed school, but if the mixed school seemed substantially better then I'd go for that one.

I didn't choose a strong maths/science option at school (not England) many years ago despite my maths teachers heavy protestations because the idea of spending half my schooldays in a class composed 80% of spotty, sweaty adolescent boys and 15% of nerdy girls was intolerable.

But I quite like maths and science and earned my living doing Excel nonetheless!

Electronics A level is not a proper A level though is it?Physics is okay. People need to be very careful about all these fake type qualifications the state schools push. Thankfully this Government is on to it and giving state school parents the information private school ones seem already to have about what employers want.

The independent girls school near us starts from age 3.

I find the whole concept bizarre tbh.

The independent girls school near us starts from age 3.

I find the whole concept bizarre tbh.

i don't think a girls school would have suited me, many of my friends are boys because i had and have three main interests/hobbies that are male-dominated.
there are some girls who are into the same things as me but statistically i would have been very lucky to meet them in a girls school year-group.

because of my positive experiences with male platonic friends in my teenage years i would be reluctant to choose a single-sex environment for a daughter of mine.

'i attended an all girls school and mine was a horrendous academic hothouse of pressure, eating disorders and bitchiness.

i would never inflict the same on my dd.

i did come out with cracking academic results but the low self esteem and eating disorders which it also created havent been worth it IMO'

Ditto what iloveberries said, and mine was a boarding school. Very limited subject choices as well. Vile. The only reason I would ever have returned would have been with 5 gallons of petrol.

aaah, dustinthewind sorry you had the same experience as me... rotten wasn't it! Still, at least it will help us make a clear choice for our own kids!

I did, mine are 17 and 21 now, DD is confident with her own intelligence and non-conformism as to dress, hobbies and choice of university course.
She is her own person. And a feminist.

I had the same experience as Iloveberries. I was so unhappy I was suicidal.

So, does that tell us anything about the sort of girls that might thrive in an all-female environment?
I've only ever felt bullied, intimidated and mocked unpleasantly by females.