Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why women have sex

93 replies

LadyBlaBlah · 12/01/2012 13:37

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/28/sex-women-relationships-tanya-gold?fb_action_ids=3023185662982%2C2659272674836%2C2659286875191%2C2659264114622%2C2659264074621&fb_action_types=news.reads&fb_source=other_multiline

Kinda wish she had just left it as the quoted number 1 reason - orgasm.

No real need to harp on about trapping men, prostituting oneself etc.

OP posts:
PlentyOfPubeGardens · 15/01/2012 10:18

I think part of the problem is confusion between the reason why and motivation -

'why did you have sex?'
'well, I was raped'

In terms of the survey, it counts as a reason why, but it's in no way a motivation. The article mixes them up.

Another part of the problem is that while I absolutely agree that rape is not sex in the sense that SQ is arguing, the reality is that lots of women who have been raped do describe it as sex, eg.

'he had sex with me when I was asleep'
'he had sex with me when I was off my face'
'I had sex with him but I didn't really want to'

I know it's rape, you know it's rape, but this is how ordinary women in the here and now are describing their experiences.

SardineQueen · 15/01/2012 11:16

No, what I am trying to say (obviously quite badly) is that most women who recognise that they have been raped, don't count it as them having sex.

Most women whose last encounter was what they know was a rape, see it as being raped. They do not see it as them having sex.

Same is if someone comes up to you and puts their hand between your legs, you see it as a sexual assault, as something that has been done to you. If someone then asked "when did you last engage in foreplay or petting" you wouldn't say the sexual assault, because you wouldn't see it like that.

Same as if you are being stalked, and someone asks when the last time someone woo-ed you was, you wouldn't describe being stalked.

Of course there are occasions when people don't name what has happened to them as they should - and that is understandable. But that's not about those people.
It's about a very basic idea of whether a woman being raped (language - something is being done to her - passive) is the same as a woman having sex (langauge - she is doing something - active - indicates at least some kind of decision or choice on her part).

Most women when thinking rape, do not think of the women as "having sex", they think of them as being raped. Same as when they think of foreplay, they don#t think of sexual assault.

Like I say, maybe the language differs in different places, but around here someone would never describe a rape as a "woman having sex". And a woman who knew she had been raped would think "I have been raped" not "I have had sex".

And in the context of the article it is even more strange - as how can being raped ever be a motvation for sex.

SardineQueen · 15/01/2012 11:24

I suppose to me, saying "she had sex" means "she had consensual sex" but the consensual part is taken as read.

To me "she had sex" would never be taken to mean "she was raped" or it was non consensual or coerced or she was being threatened or was unconscious or anything. As pubegardens says there is always a qualifier - a BUT - or different words are used. Not just "she had sex" - that to me would not mean "she was raped".

Himalaya · 15/01/2012 11:25

Plentyofpubes - that makes sense to me.

SardineQueen · 15/01/2012 11:27

To me it is like this:

When did you last indulge in foreplay or petting?
Last weekend when a stranger came and grabbed my breasts in the pub.

What motivated you to indulge in that foreplay / petting?
Oh well I was sexually assaulted.

So survery says 10% of women last decided to engage in foreplay when they were sexually assaulted by a stranger on the street.

It's just not how people use language, to me anyway.If someone wants to say they have been raped, they say it, one way or another, but not by simply saying "I had sex".

SardineQueen · 15/01/2012 11:30

"Another part of the problem is that while I absolutely agree that rape is not sex in the sense that SQ is arguing, the reality is that lots of women who have been raped do describe it as sex, eg.

'he had sex with me when I was asleep'
'he had sex with me when I was off my face'
'I had sex with him but I didn't really want to'

I know it's rape, you know it's rape, but this is how ordinary women in the here and now are describing their experiences."

Yes but the women in the survey would have been included under the other motivation parts rather than the rape part. From what I can see they were asking about when people had sex and why - I don't know that they were seeking to define whether the experiences were consensual or otherwise past what the women identified it for themselves. Otherwise there are a lot of reasons that are listed that would have been included in rape or coercion, rather than the separate categories that they list.

To me it certainly read that rape was a motivation that some women had given for having sex and that to me is just a really peculiar conclusion.

SardineQueen · 15/01/2012 11:33

I feel like I am getting tied up in knots here.

Why can't I explain what I mean adequately?

I just don't think the words rape and sex are interchangable. I think that the phrases "I had sex" and "I was raped" convey very different meanings.

Himalaya · 15/01/2012 11:33

SQ - I understand what you are saying (I think...) in the everyday sense of the words - and 90% of the time I think we would be using the same words to describe the same thing.

But I do think that such a thing as non-consensual sex exists and = rape and to insist that rape is never sex and sex is never rape is dangerous and unecessary.

As i have said - what about a woman trafficked into this country and held against her will with threats and fear of deportation? I would argue that a man having sex with a prostitute who is being held in this way is rape (morally, if not legally at this point) and arguing "well she had sex with me" is neither here not there .

Himalaya · 15/01/2012 11:35

SQ yes I agree "I had sex" and "I was raped" have very different meanings. But "I was forced to have sex against my will" to me has exactly the same meaning as "I was raped".

SardineQueen · 15/01/2012 11:42

But the question wasn't "when were you forced to have sex against you will" - that has qualifiers on it.

The question "when did you last have sex" to me implies consensual activity, because non consensual activity is spoken about differently, different words are used.

I mean, when I was raped, I didn't call it that for years. I didn't feel like I'd simply "had sex" though, I knew that he had sex with me even though I said no, I felt that something was wrong. The idea that this was me having sex was not true because me having sex does not look and feel like that.

And as for calling rape a motivation for women to have sex - that's just bizarre.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 15/01/2012 12:18

I understand and agree with what you're saying SQ.

Trouble is, without reading the study itself, we don't know how the questions were phrased or how the data was analysed. The study may not have referred to 'motivation' at all. All we have to go on is a rather poorly written book review.

Somehow, some of the respondents did say they were raped, in answer to whatever questions they were asked, and others said they had been coerced in various ways.

Aside from the issues around language, the study could contain some really valuable information: just how much unwanted sex/rape is happening to women, however it's referred to.

SardineQueen · 15/01/2012 12:40

I wonder why they did they survey though? What were the aims? At first glance a study into "why women have sex" sounds like something that might appear in a lads mag or just 17 or something. It sounds like an odd question to ask, not very rigorous somehow. It has been made into a book entitled "Why women have sex" and I don't know, something about it just doesn't sit right with me. It's hard to explain. The person who did it is a psychologist - things such as rape, coercion, because you need the money - these things are not reasons that bear examination by a psychologist, surely, at least not on the part of the woman, looking at "why they have sex" from a psychological angle. I am finding it really hard to find the words to explain what I mean on this thread! I'm really just talking about how I feel, how this all makes me react, rather than any kind of definitive statements about anything. It just all feels a bit wrong, somehow.

It is true that we haven't got a lot to go on, what the book actually covers though, just the title and the article.

SardineQueen · 15/01/2012 12:42

Just looking at the amazon page for it to see if it reveals anything more

here

This made me laugh:

"Why Women Have Sex is an endlessly well informed and irresistibly readable book. The candor of the women?s responses and the authors? knowledge of all that has been happening in the world of sex research for the past few decades combine to make it the most fascinating and illuminating look at female sexuality since Kinsey?s Sexual Behavior in the Human Female."?Mary Roach, author of Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex

I don't know why. I think because I was reading the page with my serious face on, when I came to the review of it by the author of "Bonk" Grin

SardineQueen · 15/01/2012 12:44

There are excerpts from the book in the first review that could have me ranting for ages, probably another thread though.

I did like this:

" A male's scent enables women to identify good hygiene "

Ground-breaking!

qwerty5 · 19/01/2012 18:36

237 different reasons rather demonstrates why you cannot treat women (or men, or Europeans, or train-spotters or ANY demographic) as a homogenous entity.

Belgarion · 22/01/2012 11:53

People (men and women) have sex simply because it is a biological necessity. The only reason any animal exists (aside from to survive) is to reproduce, everything else is biologically secondary.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 22/01/2012 11:59

Yes, Belgarion, as my DC used to say, I had to do it twice! Yuk! Grin

Himalaya · 23/01/2012 07:10

Belgarion - but that does not explain why humans have sex 99% of the time - during non-fertile times of the month, when pregnant etc...

Recreational sex (and hidden ovulation) can't simply be for reproduction!

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread