My Feminist Fail

[msrisotto]

This is meant to be a light hearted thread!

I am a card carrying, soap box ranting, "This Is What A Feminist Looks Like" t-shirt owning feminist but......[small voice] I love watching America's Next Top Model. Shocker! I am embarrassed to admit it, I know how awful it is. Encouraging and celebrating the sexual objectification of women.

And I wear quite heavy make up when my skin is bad. But I don't think Feminism would blame me for that, a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do to survive in the patriarchy!

Don't tell me everyone else is virtuous here! Care to share?

But men are bothered about how they look too. Therefore not a feminist issue but a wider issue for society in general no?

Btw, I think sahm's labour should be included in GDP.

Make up is a tricky one. Men look HOT in make up. I prefer my face with make up and honestly, I'm not going to feel guilty about it. I don't like the fact that some feminists put other women down for wearing make up/heels/whatever. None of us are perfect, we're all just doing the best we can.

One of my things is my sexual relationship. I'm very submissive sexually, we go to fetish clubs and I get dressed up and I love it. Not sure where it fits in with my feminism, but I feel accepted and it's definitely part of me. I wonder if maybe the constant attempts to be in a non patriarchal relationship get exhausting sometimes and I just want to let go of that occasionally. Having said that, one of the things I like about the fetish scene is that it's equally acceptable to be a male or female submissive and that everyone, be they young, old, fat, thin, ugly or pretty is accepted there.

I wear make up to hide my red nose because I have been called Rudolph all my life. I think anyone would do the same.

But I hate two and half men because it isn't funny.

Sexual proclivities are nothing to do with feminism imho, unless there is oppression or abuse.

wise words all.

Isla I think you're right about the fear of aging- but other cultures respect their elders. Even other European cultures do a better job than we do. Here in the UK, older women in particular are just treated like detritus. And as yellow says, it is bloody scary.

I have to draw on eyes so people know where to look when talking to me

I think men do care but to a much lesser extent. They just don't face the same pressures to look good. There are other stronger pressures on them e.g. to be 'hard' and unemotional, successful, etc.

IMO feminism is about what you think and say more than about what you do.

If you believe that women shouldn't have to wear makeup to fit into society then you are not failing just because you wear makeup. You might do it because you like it or you might be bowing to the cultural pressure. But even if you are not feeling strong enough to go against the norm, as long as you're not discouraging other people from doing it you are not failing.

IMO it's OK to say I respect and admire people who go against this particular stereotype, and I feel very strongly that they should be allowed to do so, but for various reasons I am not currently one of them.

I watched the World Darts Championship avidly, despite the fact that I feel a bit uncomfortable with all the half naked dolled up women accompanying the players on to the stage and doing a cheerleader routine before the match starts.

I'm not sure Isla, for many feminists, it is definitely a problem. For me, it's not, I don't feel guilty, I just wonder why it's such a big thing for me. It always has been.

I'm not sure how much elder women are respected, even in other societies.

I find the cult of celebrity for celebrity's sake is very depressing. I don't like the objectifying of people based on their looks. We, as a society, should be better than that. It's just so base.

hehe snap yellow, I am also submissive and into fetish. I see that as part of the 'playing' thing I was talking about. Never really had a problem with it. Men do though, some partners have been really threatened by it (the fetish thing not the submission....). You're so right about the accepting nature of that scene. Never felt so relaxed and no pressure at all to be anything other than what you felt like being.

I love Georgette Heyer: I read her when I'm stressed and need soothing. That feels like quite a big Feminist Fail to me.

I also wear high heels (ultra-short-arse so the extra three inches is a Godsend).

breaktime, I've seen a LOT of people saying recently that men have the same pressure to look good.

Give me a break. It's such nonsense. A couple of my male friends go to the gym, but that's not just about looking good, it's also about health.

Something I noticed the other day and had never pondered: why are there all these "feminine hygiene products" for cleaning your vulva. Wipes, sprays, soaps...where is the "masculine hygiene products" section? It's not as if unwashed penises smell any better than unwashed vulvas. I resent being made to feel as if my genitals are inherently dirtier than my partner's.

'But men are bothered about how they look too. Therefore not a feminist issue but a wider issue for society in general no?'

I don't think I would agree with this. I think there are loads of things to do with the patriarchy that are bad for both men and women. I think as well that although men are bothered about how they look, they are judged on different criteria than those on which women are judged - eg., it's considered almost stuffy for a woman to wear a shirt buttoned up to her neck, whereas men don't show the tops of their chests to look respectable at work; men are often looked down on for wearing makeup whereas women are often encouraged to. If it weren't a feminist issue, IMO, there would be the same considerations applying to both men and women.

I can imagine a society where wearing eyeshadow was just a pleasant way to decorate your face, but in it I think no-one would be assuming a man who wore it was gay/alternative, or a woman who didn't was 'not taking care of herself'.

Never felt so relaxed and no pressure at all to be anything other than what you felt like being

Isn't that what feminism is about? About being defined by something other than our sex?

yellow - amen to that!!

yeah agree yellow. I do think however that traditional feminism (whatever that is...) minimised the horrible impact of patriarchy on men. The constant pressure to be a cold hard android with no feelings and a fast car full of hot chicks. Urgh. I'd rather be a woman with all the crap we have to face, tbh.

We could, I suppose, bring out a MN brand of penis sprays and wipes?

yes indeed Isla. I found the fetish scene very degendered, and it was such a relief. Men able to dress up the way they felt like, look pretty if that was what they wanted, etc etc. And it was normalised (for the scene)- just what they felt like doing and that was fine.

LOL @ penis spray

I don't think I said it was the same pressure but there is definitely a creep towards valuing people for their visual appeal rather than their intellect or skills.

Even our politicians now have to look and behave a certain way to be taken seriously. That was not really the case even a generation ago.

I wonder if our men would mind if we got it out at opportune moments? 'I'm just spraying you. For reasons of hygiene and, er, freshness.'

It's true, breaktime, it's a very non-gendered scene. Also, very unthreatening. There was a thread the other day about men grabbing your arse in clubs/not leaving you alone when you asked etc. The fetish scene is the opposite of that. People are so polite and respectful. I wonder if it's because it's so gender neutral.

Am I supposed to be offended if builders wolf whistle? Because I really love like it when it happens!
I have no clue about feminism, I lurk on threads hoping to learn.