What skills do today's students need to fight inequality?

[TeddyBare]

I work for a university, and I have been approached by the Women?s representative of the Students? Union with this question. They?re looking into getting speakers and workshop leaders to discuss things that will help to equalise the world they will be working in. Both male and female students are invited to attend the events, but I think they have a pretty tough time getting many male students to attend. They are asking all of the staff as well as students to contribute ideas of things which would be interesting or useful. I would like to support them because I think they do a very good job, but I haven?t got many ideas!

The only thing I could think of was some kind of workshop teaching women how to negotiate better contracts when starting jobs. There are a lot of sources which suggest that female employees accept the offer that the employer gives, while male employees are more inclined to try to bargain. There are also studies which show that women, when they do try to bargain, even when they use identical scripts to their male counterparts, are perceived to be grabby and trying to get something for nothing. I would like to have a workshop on ways which women can ask for a better deal without coming across as greedy or lazy, although I?m not sure if there is an ?expert? on this, or if it?s even possible!

Yes I'm not really sure how it helps young women to fight discrimination to invite the beneficiaries of that discrimination along.

Teddy, it's not correct that it's the negotiation skills of women that are lacking when they ask for more money, it's the sexism of the people who decide the pay that's the problem.

"it's not correct that it's the negotiation skills of women that are lacking when they ask for more money, it's the sexism of the people who decide the pay that's the problem."

I negotiated and got a very small rise, and I am glad I did, however there was a high price to pay in that some people felt I didnt deserve it, (even if I was still underpaid) and made life difficult for me. Whereas if a man had done this, Im sure they would not blink twice.

Next time I will negotiate harder, because being fairly paid is important for my self esteem.

Practising and being comfortable with self promotion would be a great workshop. This is an important but difficult skill to feel comfortable with.

Am i the only one who is at the poster who said that female studenst biggest convern about job interviews is what to wear???? That they are worried about looking " slutty or stuffy"

Get rid of the Facebook account where you pose pictures of yourself pouting wearing very little clothing in the local student bars !

Any potential employer is going to look at facebook to see what you have been to !

Top five facebook mistakes that can ruin your career

Avantia. Unfortunately that is so true. I have been in a job where the facebook profiles of all the (female, but not male) interviewees for an entry level position were pored over the day before the interviews. I shudder to think what preconcieved assumptions went into the interview room. The successful candidate was male.

I would advise getting rid of all Facebook before the job hunt starts. Give them no opportunity to discriminate, that's my mantra. I also used to tell femal students to only use their initial in applications, not a first name, unless they had a gender non-specific name like Alex.

I studied at a women's college, and in retrospect, I think my fellow students and I were explicitly pushed from an early point to do apparently small things that 'get you noticed' as a 'serious contender'. I noticed at a recent conference for graduate students, for example, that although the attendees were 50% / 50% male and female, and that the most senior people there were about 60% / 40% male and female, the post-session questions were asked overwhelmingly by male students - something like 85% / 15%, IIRC (I actually started counting about half-way through the conference). Now, my supervisor would have been bloody furious if her students had failed to ask a question after a talk, whether they were male or female.

I think negotiation skills would be excellent. I'm definitely lacking those.

GM - the downside of that is the PITA who never learns that you don't have to ask 3 questions every single time you attend a presentation or meeting, even if thouse questions are totally unrelated to the subject matter and the meeting is over-running and it's obviously only being asked to get the questioner noticed and everyone else wants their lunch now.

Although of course, it is generally the female questioners who are bitched about in that scenario, not the male ones.

Ninja skillz

Butterfly effect and Thunder bolts ? As far as I can tell, they are keen to get men involved because it is not possible, or it?s much more difficult, for women to bring about all of the changes. You say yourself that it?s not women?s negotiation skills which are lacking, but the way men perceive them which is unfair. How can that be changed if the movement refuses to engage with men? If men were more aware of sexism then they might also play a role in changing it, which could bring about faster changes. I would be interested to hear practical tips on how to make sure that the situation does not end up with men dominating conversations and making it about them. I think working with separate groups to start with might be a useful way of doing this.

I think there are also people who hope that male members might also bring the benefit of helping to attract female students who think that the Women?s Association is irrelevant to them or is boring or about hating men. I find it disappointing that there are such negative opinions of the association, but I?m not surprised, and it is very difficult to break down those ideas. I know they have struggled in the past to reach out to the women who could probably benefit most from it. The free self-defence course attracted a lot of members who may not otherwise have joined. They have also done some seminars on how to recognise if you?re in a healthy relationship, and some other things about relationships which I can?t remember, which were helpful to bring in sceptical female students. If you know of a genius method of engaging these kinds of women then please share it.

Also, if using different negotiating methods works better, then it is in the best interests of women to know those methods. Of course women should be able to say exactly the same thing as men and not be judged for it, but at the moment they can?t. If using different negotiation methods sidesteps this problem and puts female students on a similar starting salary to their male counterparts then I?m all for teaching them, even though I would prefer it to be an unnecessary skill.

EM - so true . There's that certain sort of question where everyone starts to glaze over and shuffled deep down into their seats in the hope they'll be able to have a nice nap before the idiot stops showing off about how clever htey are. But I would say those are 99% done by men