Pester power: my 4 yo really wants Barbie, what to do?

[Greythorne]

i know it's not the most taxing question on the feminism board, but how would you handle this?

DD1 has never had Barbie, although various Polly Pockets and Strawberry Shortcake dolls have made their way into our house :)

I just feel so strongly that Barbie is a terrible representation of the female body, i.e. She's completely out of proportion, her hips are impossibly thin, her waist ridiculous etc. And that's before we start on the predominantly pink outfits, the emphasis on appearance etc.

I know children enjoy role playing via dolls and recognise the developmental need to play house, play parent, play at setting up a little imaginary world. And so I have steered DD1 towards.....Sylvanian Families, which, while heavy on gender clichés feature animals rather than fetishised female forms.

But of course all her friends have Barbie. And Barbie is everywhere.

Just one more instance to chalk up to be being "well-intentioned but (perceived by child as) evil mummy?

DD was given various Barbies by others as presents. She was never really "into" them aand once said she thought they looked wierd. She hated those other ones - Bratz - even more!

What would you think about a Sindy instead?

Oh Butterfly - do be serious. I'm sure grown women are not getting their toes cut off simply because of Barbie - for goodness sake.

I agree with flapperghasted. Buy it or don't buy it. You don't need Dittany or anyone else to get outraged to justify your decision.

Frankly I find Sylvanians far more disturbing.

My Sindy was a Keep Fit Sindy and she wore trainers.

I remembered her as having similar feet to Barbie and yet having flat shoes but looking at the pics they can't have been as extremely pointy as Barbie's.

(My Barbie only had a swimsuit and the clothes knitted for her by my granny.)

I don't think Butterfly is suggesting Barbie is the only factor.

To be honest, I did start this thread very much against Barbie but was looking to my feminist friends for some back up, because my real life friends seem to think I am being silly.

The arguments in favour of Barbie on this thread have really not changed my mind. In fact, they have galvanised me against Barbie. "Wanting to conform at this age" and"my daughters all had Barbie and it never did them any harm" don't really cut it for me. But I do genuinely thank everyone who posted because it has helped clarify the issue in my mind.

Out of interest, I wonder what people think about buying replica weapon toys for kids. Do the same arguments apply? That they want to conform and will grow out of it? Because I disagree with weapon toys too.

And my plaintive cry for Dittany was tongue in cheek. But I do miss her. I have a feeling she has name changed, though.

Dittany - name change? I doubt it really. She has a very 'obvious' posting style... so if she's name changed and is posting it must be killing her to be being so restrained!!

Well - I'm glad you got what you wanted out of the thread.

Weapons - I don't mind the obviously extremely fake silver guns you get with cowboy type suits/cap guns/water pistols, hate the very real looking ones that look like modern guns. I wouldn't mind if they were given the former but would 'rehome' the latter to the bin they make your heart stop in a way the crappy silver cowboy ones don't and I'm very much of the opinion that they'll make a 'gun' our of fresh air anyway if they want one.

Replica toy guns don't bother me at all, DD grew up around real guns / crossbows etc. DH is an ex-military armourer who also did bomb disposal and has a real interest in weaponry, ancient and modern and we've been on various shooting ranges in the US due to the draconian weapons restrictions in this country.

I had toy guns as a child, remember Charlies angels? If I remember correctly , DD was never interested in toy guns, it was toy cars she liked, especially DH's expensive model car collection.

read 'cinderella ate my daughter' greythorne.

i know i said that before, but really, do it.

i don't think any of us like barbies. and i was pretty much vehemently agains them before i read it. but it did help me put it into perspective, and ther are bigger fish to fry.

(that's redolent of the miss world thread, i know. you won't get me arguing in favour of miss world, but i guess the 'let it go', or 'choose your battles' might be something to do with age... at 20 or even 30 i was adamant there would be no barbies for my daughters. these days i'm more prepared to meet the things head on and deal with the issues they raise. sort of consciousness-raising in my daughters... i don't know if it comes with being more confident in my own beliefs as a feminist (the same could also be said of mary beard i suppose) or not. but i do see bigger fish to fry. and lots of ways to turn having barbies in the house into a positive feminist experience. not that i seek them out, mind. but grannies appear to think they are one of life's essentials, and it's always such a downer to have to confiscate christmas presents after the bairns have opened them and squealed with delight. )

but please, read the book. you might hate it. you might see it as a feminist trying to come to terms with balancing her principles and her daughter's wishes. you might think she's not a feminist. but the book chimed with me.

DD has several Barbies and Barbie-a-likes given to her by other people. She occasionally plays with them - they mostly come out when other children who are used to playing with Barbies come round to play. DD is not averse to playing with other children's Barbies and Barbie paraphernalia (houses, horses, cars etc) when she goes to their homes to play.

However, DD would much rather play with her über tasteful German Bodo Hennig Classic Landhaus and Lotte Sievers-Hahn dolls house dolls. Remember, the greatest arbiter of a child's taste is his/her mother...

Does a girl's father not have an input then Bonsoir? I know that DH has had as much of an influence on DD's tastes as I have, they share a love of Tolkien and Harry Potter that I don't share, they would spend hours when she was little building lego spaceships/cities etc. In some ways she is far more like him than like me, luckily she has his sociable and outgoing side, which when combined with my instincts ( DH is far too nice and trusting) , uber-organisational skills and stubborness make her a formidable personality.

Barbies are neither here nor there in a child's upbringing, attitudes and symbiotic co-parenting are what's important, how is someone like Op going to prevent her DD from zoning in on Barbies like an exocet missile when she's at a friends or at school? Toy guns and dolls don't form a child's personality, good or lazy/uninterested parenting does.

One thing I never bought for DD was one of those god-awful "girls world" heads that you do hair and make up on, they give out a worse message than any princess barbie imo.

"I hadnt given it a great deal of thought, perhaps you are over thinking??"

Most definitely teenswhodhavethem

I think it's very insecure parenting in believing that a doll can have so much influence of a child.

My DD has barbies and bratz and had no affect on her at all. She is 14 sitting next to me in a tiger onsie and lives in skinny jeans and never wears make up and it is most likely because I don't wear any make up myself.

Then can I snort at the implication that one former, prolific poster would have the only opinion worth anything at all and no-one elses opinion matters?

One who (to the best of my knowledge) didn't even have any children.

I do think that the age at which girls start to like Barbie is an age where a doll is a doll. The link between a Barbie and a real woman is weak at best and they can equally equate a teddy to a tea party attendant, without thinking that you can only come to tea if you're covered in fur. Personally, I think my daughter sees the bear as a more realistic representation of women than Barbie, but perhaps that's because I'm very, very hairy :)

DD has been given a couple of Barbies and similar, I wouldn't consciously choose to buy them for her but I don't really agree with banning things either (my parents, for instance, banned Enid Blyton books for racism/sexism/snobbery and just poor writing and I went to the library and devoured every single one!).

But the good thing is she's not really interested in them at all, in fact they are neither here nor there to her as toys, so actually there is no issue. I think if you are a confident role model for your daughter that is far more important. If I were to ask dd (she is 4) she would probably say Barbie is boring or silly tbh. She is more into animals/dollshouses/Sylvanians type stuff. Not all little girls are particularly interested in dolls per se.

:o Flapper

The way I explained Barbies to anyone who would listen is that it's structured inequality in employment and pensions that holds women back.

Not a plastic doll.

Snurk at the "now spit" Barbie. Look at her - she swallows, for sure

We have recently faced the Barbie dilemma. I capitulated - it was a reward for 21 consecutive nights of DD's sleeping in her own bed.

I was thinking recently that I don't really remember any of the Christmas presents I got as a child - but I remember with crystal clarity the one I desperately wanted and didn't get (one of those tin robots. I can actually still remember its exact position on the shelf in the department store 30-odd years ago).

I figured that if DD got the Barbie (or cheap supermarket clone - luckily she is not fussy), it would be forgotten in a couple of months, but if I didn't, she might still be holding a candle for it throughout her childhood. She would have devoted much more headspace to it if I hadn't bought it than if I had.

Or do I mean:

she swallows, for sure

? Open wide, Barbie girl!