Feminism and vintage/retro dress

[ElderberrySyrup]

Been meaning to start this thread for ages.

I've been doing a spot of vintage dressmaking lately and hence looking at quite a few blogs on the subject. 1950s style seems to be the most popular and there were a fair number written by women who dress in 50s clothes because they love the 50s, when men were men and women were ladies and everyone knew their place. Often it goes with being a happy Christian SAHM.

However there are also some who find something subversive in vintage style (eg this one - I don't want to link to the happy Christian ones in case it gets bitchy and they seem like sweet people whom I have no desire to upset.) Tea dresses worn with tattoos are quite common.

It has also struck me that a fair few of my feminist friends are into vintage style crafting and dressing. At all the marches I have been on there have been a few marchers who could have stepped straight out of the 40s or 50s (there was an Edwardian one at Million Women Rise IIRC) and I have seen pics of quite a number at Slutwalk.

So, I'm intrigued and fascinated. What is the connection, if any? Is it about resisting MODERN fashion? It would make more sense if we were all dressing as Suffragettes or 70s women's libbers, but that's quite rare. And the clothes are often no more comfortable, or less sexualised, than contemporary fashion. Is it about acknowledging the constructed nature of femininity? Or is there no connection at all, is it that in any group of women in the UK in 2011 there will be a few retro dressers (is that the case?) and it just happens that a proportion of them are feminists?

Any thoughts?

I think it may be more to do with fashion than feminism. Some of it may be to do with economic hard times. I think I read a few articles that people "long" for "simpler and more prosperous times" (or what they thought were through their rose tinted glasses) and fashions reflect that. So, if folks think things were hunky dory in the 1950's, that can end up being the reference point they work from.

There was that popular tv programme called "Mad Men" which was set I think in the 50's or early 60's, and others like it. Then there seemed to be a thing about burlesque - and because it's stylised after something from a bygone age, advocates will insist it's not tacky or exploitative like other areas of the sex industry, but creative, arty and (for reasons I can't fathom) "empowering."

From our position in the 21st century, we can pick and choose what we want to "take" from the past and can afford to ignore the reality of what life was really like at the time. I mean in Britain, there was still rationing in the 50's, access to contraception was restricted and abortion was legal, it was legal for women to be paid half the salary of a man for the same job, and compulsory to give up many jobs when you got pregnant, or sometimes even when you got married. There were no laws against sex discrimination. Domestic abuse and rape were considered to be shame for the victims, not crimes. But, all this can be conveniently airbrushed from the scene to make way for ruby lipstick, pointy bras, cocktails and colourful textiles and kitsch prints.

I suppose in one way though, it's not that different from wearing a mediaeval gown or a cowboy costume to a fancy dress party. That's just appropriating selected aspects of a time and culture as well. I suppose the only somewhat disturbing thing about appropriating elements of the 1950's is that there do seem to be folks advocating a return to the values of the time as well.

For me - and I don't wear a huge amount of retro - it was partly about wearing what I wanted to wear. I have boobs and hips - not huge, but trousers look wrong on me. It annoys me that men have a professional uniform, that looks appropriate in loads of situations. I struggle to find that. I know I wear dresses a lot more often that lots of other women, because a lot of women deliberately dress in a slightly masculine style in order to look serious. I find that annoying.

There is more to it than that (!), and I agree with Kri that burlesque increasingly makes me a bit uncomfortable. But the above point just keeps coming back - 50s and 50s style clothes actually fit me. A trouser suit made for a woman who is straight up-and-down does not, and it looks all wrong on me.

Also, I have to say, it doesn't half piss me off that a lot of professional women I know seem to wear shapeless clothes or clothes tailored for men, as wearing clothes that fit must be something to do with sex. Because of course, when you can see a woman's body, that's what you are forced to think of, isn't it?

I can actually think, even when you can see I have boobs. Amazing.

(Sorry, not in the chirpiest mood today, and btw, I'm not talking about remotely revealing clothes, just stuff tailored to fit my body instead of hiding it.)

Could the retro thing be as simple as a legitimised way of dressing up in a world in which dressing poorly is the norm?
A sort of harking back to being a girl and thinking of all the things you could wear when you grow up and get boobs and hips...only now we have grown up and clothes are kid of crap and boobs and hips are often not really welcome, despite childhood yearnings.

For me wearing 50's dresses is about rejecting unisex clothing and celebrating looking like a woman.
As Dragon said clothes tend to be fitted for women as if they had much more masculine figures then they do on reality.

I feel it's less about retro longing and submissive SAHM and more about embracing womanly attributes rather than trying to fit in.

(waiting eagerly for the return of the bustle!) :)

I'm with LRD. It's because that's what fits my figure.

I happen to really like 1950s styling and think women look very nice in it. Its a tailored look, a feminine look but not dressing revealing or obviously 'sexy'. Think Audrey Hepburn, Grace Kelley and other 1950s actresses dressed in Givenchy and Chanel.

OK I'm not expressing a feminist viewpoint and maybe it's a 'male gaze' viewpoint but maybe, just maybe, some feminists also like to dress in a feminine style without feeling they are conforming to modern notions of how a woman should dress to look 'sexy'.

I like what you say about not conforming to ideas about how to be 'sexy' ... I have to say, I'm not keen on the idea of 'feminine style'. To me, I dress according to what my body fits. It's a female body, not a feminine one.

Dunno if that makes any sense mind!

I suppose what I mean is, dressing in a skirt doesn't make me 'feminine', any more than dressing in a suit makes me 'masculine'. I think?

wow, what a lot of interesting posts.

The thing about it fitting your figure - yes, that's partly why I've been getting into it too. I'm an hourglass with massive shoulders, which means I have to get a 14 to fit over the shoulders but then it is massive round the waist. I'm so sick of things not fitting. And I can't afford the clothes I want (eg Brora!) and I can sew anyway so I thought it was daft not to make my own.
So I made this navy polka dot dress the other day, adapting the pattern to fit, and it is absolutely bloody fantastic. It fits!

But of course it's not just about the fit, it's also about somehow liking what the clothing says.

There's something about 40s and 50s style that feels somehow grown-up to me (though of the dresses can be very 'little girl', it depends). It relates to what Beta said, I think.

NotJustClassic - we were on Highcliffe Beach when she did her photoshoot there! I always wondered who she was and what it was for, so now I know

This is an interesting post on that blog.

The very first comment convinces me I'm not going crazy in posting this in the feminist topic: 'For example my husband, who describes himself as a communist, finds it somehow funny that I, who describe myself as a feminist, like to dress in an old-fashioned, housewife-like style.'
Yup, my dh thinks me hanging around in pretty dresses is weird too.

Ooh, I wish i could sew better ...

I think this sort of thing really belongs in the feminist topic - apart from anything else, it's from this section I learned that the 1950s stereotypes are a bit of a myth anyway. There were feminists around then too, and working women, and so on.

I need a suit for job interviews. I started a desperate thread in style and beauty this morning, because like LRD, I have an hourglass figure, and modern tailoring just does not fit.

But with determination I found some clothes that do fit me, and I know they are not what I want, because they make my large breasts really obvious - e.g. the only jackets that fit my narrow shoulders and back without gaping have just one button, and draw attention to said breasts. I don't want to draw attention to my body in a job interview. But I do want to look as though I have made an effort and present myself well, it is difficult.

And it is irritating that I've devoted so much time, energy and money to searching for a boring suit that will not be well used.

I also wish I could sew!

It's just practice LRD.
There seems to be a very wide gulf at the moment between the price of fabric and the price of nice clothes - it's not too hard to find a dress length of lovely fabric for under a tenner, but the dresses my computer keeps trying to sell me seem to be over ten times that.

I always end up wearing a dress with a matching jacket instead of a two-piece suit - otherwise it never fits.

I'll get myself into hot water with this but anyway ....

I often argue that young women need to consider more carefully how they dress when they go to work and dress appropriately - to send the right message and be taken seriously. Dressing like you would when going out to a night club is not suitable at work in my view.

The normal reply I get to that comment is along the lines that a) women should free to dress how they like without men telling them what to wear and b) that it is men's problem if the sight of a short skirt or a low cut top bothers them or c) women should not feel they have to dress like a man in a suit to be accepted as serious at work.

I would argue that 1950s styling is exactly the sort of styling that women can wear in a formal setting without a) feeling constrained by convention b) looking like they are going to a nightclub or c) dressing like a man.

LRD - I'm happy with 'female style' too.

I wonder what fraction of vintage wearers are not frustrated hourglasses!

It depends on where you want to work, I don't want to look overly feminine for interviews.

I am really desperate for work

I want to look like someone who will fit in as part of a team in a conservative company, so for interview, I want to wear a trouser suit.

I can't explain my instincts on this. I suppose it must be that my extremely feminine shape will make them think of me as a wife and mother rather than analyst drone (the look I want). Maybe this echoes what others have said on this thread - 1950s style tailoring shows off the female form. Modern fashion is based on a more boyish shape.

xposts morebeta

I do think it is men's problem if low cut tops or short skirts bother them, however, 1950s styling is probably going to have a similar effect as it shows curves.

Should we be concealing our bodies lest it makes men think of us as attractive?

I think most women would agree with you though beta - I'd absolutely love to find clothing that doesn't put my boobs on display or whatever.

I don't think this inappropriate work clothes issue is especially to do with women, IME - I've had a male student turn up to class wearing a shirt buttoned only to his navel (seriously), and did have to explain that naked torsos aren't really ok when you're in a work situation. I suspect most people work that one out at some point in their first few jobs!

I think where it becomes a women's issue is that I do think men are better served for professional clothes. They may be boring, but they do the job.

Yes you are on tricky ground when you are a man telling women what to wear . You could be misrepresented - 'Women at work advised to dress like it's the 1950s! Return to an age before Women's Lib if you want to make a good impression at work, suggests man.'

I think in certain contexts it could be quite sound and practical advice. Tailoring that really fits is a way to look smart without being revealing. But it is a problem that women at work are judged so much on how they look.

Oh, however ... obviously it is not the wearer's problem if an onlooker is distracted by her body. That's just silly IMO - I've never heard of lesbians claiming they couldn't take a woman seriously because she wore a low cut top.

It's usually quite easy to say what isn't appropriate for work - I don't expect to see men's torsos, I don't expect to see their boxers because their jeans are so low they stick out, etc. But I think low-cut tops on women are not really an issue, any more than top button undone on men. It's normal. You might personally prefer a shirt and tie, or a high-neck blouse, but the other options are well within the normal range.

for me its the shape, the stuff fits me and suits me. I prefer dresses to trousers/skirt and shirt combos because the latter looks scruffy on me, shirt buttons always gape, being cut across the middle outfit wise looks terrible on me and I cant find a good fit, dresses are easier to wear, for me anyway, they fit. I've been wearing vintagey dresses since long before the current trend and am very happy that it's now quite normal to walk down the street in them. I actually feel more exposed in a pair of jeans - they cling to your shape and show it in all its glory, plus they are uncomfortable, never sit right and never fit right, not on my shape anyway.