topless women?

[nailak]

What is the feminist view on differently socially acceptable standards of modesty for men and women?
Should women be allowed to.walk around topless?
And would this be desirable?
Or is it accepted that women's breasts are a private part?
If so how do we come to this conclusion as breasts are a functional part of a women's body, and other titilating parts can be on show such as legs?
If breasts or bum are so desirable then why is it acceptable to show their shape and form with tight or sheer clothing, but not to reveal skin?

I have never heard of even one case of a woman exposing her vagina in public and it being seen as acceptable.

It would probably not be considered as threatening as male flashing, but it would certainly be seen as inappropriate, and probably a sign of mental health problems.

I would prefer a less breast-obsessed world to live in, but as I'm not there yet, I don't have a problem with always having a top on in public. I prefer men to do likewise, as well. I do have a problem with people getting incensed by culturally-sanctioned everyday body parts, though. Take legs - men have legs too (apart from men with certain disabilities, of course) and even if some find them a bit alluring, there is nothing especially sexual about legs. They are the same as arms, really, except at the other end of the body. I'm sure there are some people around who find arms quite alluring, but generally, we don't insist on them being covered, apart from in the Vatican. Even then, lower arms are allowed to be on view, and the rule applies to both genders.

anilak - there will always be some people (the vast majority of them men) who regard women as sex objects, just as there will almost certainly be some people with vicious, ignorant views towards other nations, races, etc.
Prescribing how women should dress is unlikely to solve the problem of misogyny, and it's unrealistic to imagine that there should be a single view or prescriptive approach to this(which, yet again, would be directed towards and restrictive to women and their behaviour).
Surely the point of feminism is not to create single, inflexible approaches that restrict women's lives as much or more than they've been restricted in the past, but to develop and maintain systems that protect and support women against screwed up, oppressive and damaging treatment.

nailak - sorry

thank you tchoot

in this case feminists seem to think attitudes need to change so it is either unacceptable for men to be topless or acceptable for women to be topless.

how would we go about changing society to incorporate either of these views? isnt the fact women cant be topless already restrictive?

small clanger how do we determine what should be covered or not? how did we as a society come to the conclusion breasts should be covered? and in females not males? is this the only valid perspective? what is culturally sanctioned? due to globilisation etc the perceptions of society are continually shifting, and incorporating new cultures or developing new cultures from within the society, so how does that fit in?

Theala said: "I have never heard of even one case of a woman exposing her vagina in public and it being seen as acceptable."

um, Britney Spears emerging from a limousine? Depends on what you call acceptable, of course.

(Or are we down to arguing about when to say vagina and when it's a vulva?)

Where I am from in Canada, women are allowed to be topless wherever men are. The law banning it was overturned in the 90s. I've only ever seen one woman topless there in a public place and it was on Canada Day. I agree with the law, but it's really a bit of a non-issue since most women would be very reluctant to get 'em out.

I mean I agree that the law should be the same regarding male and female toplessness...

do you agree that societies perceptions should also be the same for male and female toplessness?

In a few months (hopefully) mine will be on display in public doing what there primary function is, to feed my new baby. I won't be using a 'modesty' cloth or any other 'hide them away' material. Thats what they are there for.

My view is that everyone should be able to wear as much or as little clothing as they want, and nobody should bat an eyelid. Just like with animals. It is daft to have taboos about any part of the body being naked.

Some posters have talked about men flashing. What makes flashing offensive is not seeing genitals. It's because the purpose of flashing is to shock and upset and generally get a reaction. IMO if nakedness was more normal then flashing would not happen - as it would get no reaction.

Nailak -

Not at all. I don't have a particular program about it, nor do I expect anyone to do something they're uncomfortable about. You asked what things would change society's attitude toward bare breasts, that's all. I was simply making the point that if they were seen all the time rather than being hidden away and mystified, that would change peoples' attitudes. I'm sure for example that a lot of children growing up seeing them all the time would end up thinking "big deal, so what", like those Africans.

Whether you want this, or what you want/expect people to do for it, is your business.

"in this case feminists seem to think attitudes need to change so it is either unacceptable for men to be topless or acceptable for women to be topless."

I wouldn't quite say this. The toplessness issue bothers me because I think it is entirely possible for a man to go topless for comfort,and the only interpretation put on it may be that he is being inappropriately casual,whereas in the case of a women the fact you can see her breasts may well be interpreted sexually.
It particularly annoys me that being able to see a bit of boob in the context of breastfeeding can be viewed negatively.

Now I've got this far I guess I do think attitudes need to change,so that less is read into what women choose to do with their bodies.
In the UK that isn't going to result in an outburst of toplessness,as someone said upthread we don't have the climate for it apart from anything else.I would like women to be free to wear or not wear what they wanted,without anything beyond "that is what they've chosen to wear today" being read into it.