Witches - not cute or spooky hallowe'en figures, but actually the murder of lots of women?

[BerylStreep]

I feel a bit like a kill-joy, but my DC are getting excited at the prospect of Hallowe'en (yes, it's become much more commercialised than it was in our day, but that's a whole other thread).

We've bought the walking bloody hand, and a dancing skeleton, but I think the fact that witches are still portrayed as scary hallowe'en figures misses the point that in fact this represents the murder of countless women whose only crime was to have knowledge or skills which men felt threatened by.

I'm by no means a historian, so someone will probably put me right, but my understanding of 'witches' were that they were often women who had a bit of medical knowledge who were vilified because they had 'too much power'.

If that's the case, why is there no discussion about what the murder of all these 'witches' actually meant to the role of women in society?

Funny, we have all the Winnie books, and I don't find them offensive (I think because I identify with her hairy legs ), but it's the general idea of witches being baddies that I abhor. They're not baddies, or figures of modern day fun - it represents the lives of thousands of women who were murdered.

Interesting that the idea that the reason behind the green face and hooked nose was as a result of bruising and broken noses following torture.

When I said I was through a third of the other thread, I think I may have under-estimated it

'Do you know, I've never read any Pratchett. He's on my list but I've never quite gotten around to it.'

Well, you are young, there is time. DD and I have been to conventions and dressed up and everything. You may not get that obsessed.

It's been about 18 years since I read my last Pratchett. I loved it then, people used to think I was a bit

People have always thought that about me, it is a matter of personal pride as to the number of Stepford colleagues I have disconcerted merely by existing.

Which Pratchett should one start off with? I keep meaning to give him a go.

Equal rites would be a perfect Terry Pratchett book to start with, honeymomster, also Monstrous Regiment.

Downbytheriverside - I love his witches stories, there's Granny Weatherwax, Nanny Ogg and Magrat, the maiden, the mother and the crone, kind of like a holy trinity
The women in his books are stereotyped, but I like his stereotypes and they're not as reductive as other stereotypes so he gets a free pass from me.

There was a thread about this a while back after someone watched a ridiculous attempt at a documentary by that new age American fuckwit "Starhawk." Those accused of witchcraft varied in gender; in Iceland there about 90% male. It was about paranoia and control.
Wicca is a modern invention with no historical validity whatsoever. Crowley and Gardiner concocted it with their tongues in their cheeks.
The word witch has always had nefarious connotations and rightly so. That is something to be celebrated and used to mock the self righteous. Those who claim the title and try and portray themselves as exclusively benign are simply christians under a different name.
Children love the spooky, mysterious and edgy. Indulge them.
As for the historical persecutions, as Anton La Vey once quipped, the real witches were sleeping with the inquisitors.

Also the books with Tiffany Aching are all really good, I really enjoyed reading them as an adult and DD loves them, and I've converted one of DD's friends who was displaying obvious feminist tendencies. I keep certain TP books on hand and promote them at the slightest provocation

'Those who claim the title and try and portray themselves as exclusively benign are simply christians under a different name.'

What a bizarre statement. I agree that many elements of Wicca have been collated from different sources, and that some have filled in the blanks to their own specifications. Which makes sense to me when resurrecting a belief system that has been almost destroyed.
But Christian? Secret worshippers of the Son of God AKA Jesus?
How can you make that leap?

I live in Sussex, Tiffany Aching books are indeed a wonderfully funny read.
I donated a set to my children's secondary school library,long with the witches books.
Like SGM, we have good charity shops round here and I keep my eyes open.

This is a great thread! Really looking forward to reading the links, too...

Beryl - isn't there a positive side to DCs dresssing as witches, though? I don't see Hallowe'en witches as 'bad' characters - never have done: always saw them more in same vein as highwaymen - as glamorous, powerful folk hero(ine)s - as DCs do now.

I dress up as a witch every halloween but I make myself look as gorgeous as possible, I very rarely see the ugly witch but I see a lot of corpse brides these days...