The "Psycho Girlfriend" Trope

[HengshanRoad]

I've always been suspicious of people who talk about "psycho girlfriends" or ex-girlfriends. Most often, their behaviour seems to be a reaction to dickish men. And strangely, since it is more likely to be men that are truly "psycho" (and please note, this is not a word I ever use personally, due to its negative connotations for people with mental health issues), men seem to escape this label, no matter what sort of harm they cause to their girlfriends or wives.

The "psycho girlfriend" seems to be another unjust way of putting women down and making the whole gender seem unhinged. In my experience, it is almost exclusively due to men's lack of bravery when ending a relationship. The accusation was levelled at me on one occasion when I sent a couple of text messages to a guy who had suddenly and inexplicably cut contact. If he had simply had the guts to tell me he didn't want to see me again, I would have let it go.

And why is it that constant phonecalls, gifts, over-attention etc. are hallmarks of the "psycho girlfriend" but also of the romantic, attentive boyfriend?

[Wamster]

Yes, I agree that there's a hell of a difference between sending somebody a few more texts than is strictly dignified and threatening to kill yourself or someone else if those aren't answered.

The definition of 'pyscho' is wide and subjective: for example, if I broke up with somebody and they got upset and wanted to know why, I'd forgive them for being upset, if this continued over several into weeks, I'd be worried.

Other people may feel it entitled just for the other person to ask in first place. Yes, it is subjective. I see that, but I think being initially upset and asking what went wrong is one thing, threatening behaviour against anybody, and demanding to know what went wrong weeks later sets the alarm bells ringing.

[AyeBelieveInTheHumanityOfMen]

I think quite a lot of men know exactly what they mean by "psycho". Never listened to/read a bunch of lovely middle class young men discussing their experiences in relation to the sexual, erm, expressiveness of "mental" women? And then their tales of what happened when they broke up with them, largely because they required a modicum of attention?

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

But wamster, if you're in a situation like the one I described above, it will take you weeks to know what the hell's going on. Months even.

[garlicnutty]

Yes, Aye, they want fully-involved sex with a disinvolved relationship

[Wamster]

LRD, I do not understand what you mean by 'what the hell's going on'- if you mean that it takes months for somebody to realise their ex has an abusive personality after they have been dumped by the abuser, I agree with you entirely; it is often only in retrospect that such things can be seen clearly.

If you mean by 'what the hell's going on' you mean that it takes weeks to realise that somebody has dumped you (generic 'you'), I disagree completely. If somebody says, ' I don't want to be with you anymore', it is pretty clear: they don't want to be with you anymore. Why bother asking about the whys and wherefores? I don't really see the point.

OK, crying and initially asking why is forgivable and human (Not logical, though) but to be asking 'why' weeks later is, at best, somebody not being in possession of their normal self and, at worst, really entitled behaviour.

[sunshineandbooks]

LRD - that sounds awful! Good for you for not dropping the post-grad course and for taking control of your life. (I bet it really pissed him off that you didn't crumble so he could justify what you'd done).

FWIW I don't think you sound like a psycho ex at all. Given that he suddenly got a new girlfriend when you were in a serious LTR and basically threw you out I think it is entirely normal to take several weeks to deal with it and to keep contacting him. Under the circumstances you would be bound to want to talk to him about it in order to make sense of it.

He does indeed sound like a typical abuser.

When I first got together with my abusive X I was new to the area so didn't know too many people (if I had heard some of the information I came to know later, I'd have steered well clear). My X painted a picture of his X as a complete psycho x. Wouldn't allow him to see the children, harassing him, etc etc. I fell for it hook, line and sinker. It seems so incredibly obvious now but at the time it seemed really plausible. It wasn't helped by the fact that all his friends backed him up, agreeing she was psycho. I didn't think to question what they were basing that opinion on (i.e. lies he had told them rather than events witnessed directly), and, of course, I'd never met her to form my own opinion.

Today, we two psycho exes (of which I am one of course ) get on extremely well and our DC spend time together because they are half-siblings. Which is a bit unusual given that their father sees nothing of some of them and has only supervised contact in my case, but there we go. Should make for some interesting family photos and some creative explanations in the future...

When I see women posting on here about first wives or their DP's Xs as 'difficult' I often wonder how many are in for a rude awakening at some point in the future.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

But you say if someone says 'I don't want to be with you' it's clear ... well, maybe it is. How often is that actually said, though? Like I say, my ex never said it. In fact, as I say, I asked often if he wanted to split up and he said no. If you believe him, it was only the split second before he got together with his new girl that he had any inkling he didn't want to be with me. This would, of course, be more plausible if his new girlfriend didn't date that split second about 6 weeks before I knew anything of it.

In this very short thread, someone else has also made the same point. I don't think it's terribly uncommon.

I also think it depends on the situation. Yes, if you are a teenager or having a fling, a simple 'I don't want to be with you' is fair enough. But two adults who live together? No, it's plain ridiculous.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

sunshine - thanks. The reason I say I'm the 'psycho ex' is that is how he'd see it and how many people would think of it. I can see how what was happening, but couldn't then. And, of course, few of us really know exactly what happens in other people's relationships. The 'visible' bit, if you like, was me doing the crying/phoning/demanding. That's what people see. But they don't see the other bit.

Interesting you and your ex's other ex get on!

[HereBeBolloX]

Yes you keep on pretending that psycho exes are the ones who keep calling weeks or months later when their exes have told them it's over, Wamster.

That's not what happens. The ex never does tell them it's over, which is why they continue to believe that they're the girlfriend. Which he encourages her to believe, while telling everyone else she's his psycho ex.

We aren't talking about real pscyho exes here, they're not the feminist issue that's being discussed; we're talking about the exes men say are psycho exes who aren't, which is an interesting feminist issue (IMO anyway, I think it's quite interesting and it's feminist...)

[Wamster]

All of this is subjective, LRD, what one person may view as being stalking behaviour another person may see as being reasonable.
A guy who goes to his ex's home to demand explanations is -in his eyes, being reasonable. In my eyes, he is not.

I maintain that when a person says they don't want to be in a relationship anymore, the other person should respect that decision and not demand explanations. A guy doesn't want to know (or if a girl doesn't want to know anymore if you're a guy) that should always be respected.

I don't see this as a feminist issue, just a treating people's decisions with respect issue.

[HereBeBolloX]

That sounds a bit mad to me tbh.

So if you've been married for 20 years to someone and out of the blue they tell you they don't want to be in a relationship with you anymore, you should jsut respect that and not ask them why not?

You're not currently in a committed relationship, are you Wamster?

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

I never suggested it wasn't subjective, wamster, or I'd simply have told you you were categorically wrong.

I'm afraid I do not think you are describing a very common situation for adults in long term relationships. It's not normal for a long-term adult relationship to end simply with one person saying 'no thanks'. There should be discussion. I would submit that, if a person is capable of ending an adult relationship simply by saying they don't want to be in it any more, that person is not emotionally fully developed.

[Wamster]

Well, yes, HerBeBolloX, I'd ask why, I wouldn't continue asking why and I would sincerely hope that I would have the decency not to press the issue if my dp didn't want to explain further. It is HIS body, HIS life, he doesn't want to know anymore, up to him. I don't own him. Nor him me.

None of us are perfect, but I do think that. as a standard to aim at, respecting that when our dp/dh tells us they've had enough, that is respected and we don't keep going on and on at them.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

But what would you do about finances, the shared stuff? You surely wouldn't expect to communicate via solicitor, would you? I do find the idea of not discussing things further very odd.

[garlicnutty]

But LRD described a relationship in which she made sacrifices on the basis of his stated long-term plans. Then he cheated on her and gave her a sudden eviction order. That's not respectful. I don't blame LRD for not 'respecting' his sudden change of direction - although It sounds as if she did, at least in practical terms.

Mine kept making it obvious he didn't want to be in our marriage, but saying he did. That wasn't respectful either. I could hardly 'respect' his choice whilst he did one thing and said another!

On gender issues - I'm wary of generalising. I think as many women are abusive as men, often in the same ways. The drivers might be different, due to underlying stereotypes, but I'm not even sure about that. Trillian's checklist looks like a good one!

[AyeBelieveInTheHumanityOfMen]

Heh, I can just imagine either of my parents (married 40 years) accepting a "I've had enough" from the other one and nothing more.

Don't be so ridiculous.

Anyway, it suits The Patriarchy to have the fall back of calling a woman psycho or mental.

[Wamster]

Well, I suppose a couple would have to discuss the legal/financial side of things (if applicable) but this is not the same as asking them over and over why they don't want to know anymore, is it?

Sorry, I am finding it hard to reconcile the -what I believe to be feminist- idea of people needing to respect other people's space and boundaries with the idea that 'demanding' explanations as to why a person wishes to break up with another adult.

They don't fit; simple as that. People are entitled to end relationships without being asked over and over as to why.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

garlic - for me, what really strikes me isn't whether or not I made sacrifices, it's that I didn't know I was making them. If you're in an emotionally abusive relationship, I don't think you're in a position to know whether you're being reasonable or not. I'm sure you are right that this applies exactly the same to men and women. I think the differences come out in how social expectations around that emotional abuse differ.

What you say about your DH not wanting to be in your marriage but saying he did sounds the same sort of thing - it is at best a fiction to pretend that serious relationships are as simple as the situation where you can just say 'I don't want to be with you' and the other person says 'ok thanks'.

[garlicnutty]

Patriarchy is maintained using classic abuse strategies. That's a gender issue. Wamster, when men complain about feminists, they're doing exactly what you've decried! "Why don't you want to stay in our kitchens and service us? We've taken care of you! How can you call us controlling, when all we've ever done is to love you? We only want what's best for you!"

[Lessthanaballpark]

It's surprising that the stereotype is of a female psycho stalker when the actually reality is that women are overwhelmingly more likely to be stalked by men than vice versa.

ncvc

It is US data tho.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

wamster - who's 'they' who don't fit? Are we talking about a specific couple now?

[HereBeBolloX]

But they wouldn't be asked over and over, if they just said once what the problem was.

You are pretending this discussion is about something other than what it is Wamster.

Oh I think I've been here before...

[HereBeBolloX]

And the gender thing, is that when women emotionally abuse men, it's normally recognised by other people as abuse.

While when men do it, lots of people really don't see that it's abuse. They think it's normal.

That's where abuse becomes a feminist issue.

[Wamster]

Well, they should be LRD. Every human being should have the right to say 'I don't want to be with you' and not be asked over and over again as to why.

People do not own one another. If a person tells me they don't want me anymore, for me to keep pestering them over it makes me at best temporarily unhinged and at worst as entitled as any male abuser.

[Thumbwitch]

Wamster, you have not heard what some are saying and what I am about to say again - sometimes the other person doesn't actually tell you the relationship is over. They just stop answering calls, or only answer 1 in 10; leave you hanging, break dates, refuse to acknowledge your existence but when you question them about that, they still maintain that you are their girlfriend. If you are sadly blinded and besotted, this can go on for some time (6 months in my case - I'm not proud of it).

Please stop judging everyone else's situation by your own experience.