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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Need your insight on... discourse techniques to keep inequality going

41 replies

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved · 09/09/2011 14:37

a bit of an odd one, but bear with me please... I wish I could make this punchy so people will post here, as working this out is really really important to me, both in terms of understanding the world more, but also in a very personal way.

I avidly read the feminist threads, and have been following the attempts to derail constructive debate here with a mounting sense of irritation/fury/depression, but also a sense of familiarity and personal relevance. Last night I realised why, and now i really need your help to work it out some more!

In a very large nutshell: i work in a very unpleasant company, which would be interesting enough for a post of its own - run by 2 women, but a product of a patriarchal society and women's individual ways to get ahead within that context (see second post for more about this if you want to read more! but you don't need to, more me ranting!)

I have become disabled, they are discriminating against me, i've just realised that they are using a lot of the techniques that people use against women/ feminists to deny them equality. Need to identity these techniques and work out how to deal with them, as without this i feel i'll fail to get through this.

I have become disabled partially because they have refused to listen to me and make adjustments, and now its crunch time, I need them to make adjustments, and quick. I have realised they are definitely discriminating against me because of my disability (consulted lawyers), but have had the insight that the way they interact and 'discuss' things with me echoes misogynist/ anti-feminist debate, even though they are women themselves.

The penny dropped after a really uncomfortable conversation with a director on Wednesday, which afterwards my friends nailed why i was upset in one... that she was belittling and minimising my disability/ health/ need for change. Minimising totally rang a bell... thats what people do to women to keep the status quo of inequality.

I now have a PLAN! late next week i have a formal meeting to discuss my disability and the changes they need to put in place. They will be trying every trick they know to not help me, break me down and make me go away...

I make them uncomfortable and they hate me and what i represent. I am ill having been perfectly well - reminder of lifes unfairness and their own mortality. They know that they have contributed to it, and guilt doesn;t make people act in a nice way... I am ugly now, fat and on crutches/ braces, limping/ dragging feet etc... ugliness is not tolerated, its disgusting and they don't want it in their company. I am a single mum coping with no family support and an abusive ex... they want to blame everything on 'child care issues'... and kick the weakling working mum who they despise for not being seamlessly in control...

I have prepared a really good business case, I know the law is on my side, I have the solution which is good for them and me... and I know they'd rather do anything than actually make it work. So, I need to prepare myself for all the underhand techniques they will use to discriminate and derail me.

My problem is i know they are doing something, but can't identify it til afterwards, when its too late to react appropriately...

This is where you brilliant people come in... please help me make a list of all the misogynist and discriminatory behaviours and discourse techniques, then I can learn to identify them and then handle them.

I tried to look it up on the internet last night and to my horror got a load of women hating sites explaining how feminists debate badly (spits and growls, ffs)... but again thats a whole other post...

so to follow are my thoughts on the list... can you add and debate and generally help me please?????

NB in case you are wondering, I need to stay working with them for another 6-12 mths, if i possibly can, but if they refuse to play ball, am going to have to take them to court, which i don't want to do if i can help it (yet anyway).

OP posts:
garlicbutty · 12/09/2011 22:13

Fantastic advice, thistledew, imo. Wish I'd had you with me back then!

Good luck, Double. Be the boss. xx

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved · 12/09/2011 22:15

Ok, so being analytical, they get marks for subtle Belittling & blaming...

How do you deal with them without letting them end up 'Diverting'?

If I don't reply I am tacitly agreeing that I'm not worthwhile?
If I start making the point that surely this is an important issue worth the time, then am justifying my own worth & wasting time communicating that I am worth focusing to, instead of actually focusing on the issues ...

Btw thistledew my email contained an agenda, key outputs & summary of docs. I had had an informal 'chat' last week & talked about my work plan & the job role... Maybe that's what I should reply?

I still don't understand what goes through their minds, I look at them & see the similiarites, they must look at me & see differences...

OP posts:
Thistledew · 12/09/2011 22:37

Re the belittling and blaming. Remind them to stick to the facts. Say "I can see that we disagree on how this has come about, you say x, I say y, but what is important is that the situation is z and we need to agree on how to reach a solution".

OP - it does seem that you have prepared well and already presented them with the information they need, but you may find that a document structured in the way I have suggested will help you maintain a structure to the meeting, and focus on the important points.

I do hope it helps. It is much easier to plan and present things when it is about someone else's problems, not your own.

Catitainahatita · 13/09/2011 03:23

Thisteldew speaks much sense Double. I also think if you are only alloted an hour this could help you deflect the derailing. As she and I suggest make a list of replies to derailment questions/gambits and memorise them. I also agree that by "keeping things friendly" probably isn't a good aim. I would aim for polite and civil; but not friendly. Friendly means there is confidence in each other and this -from what I gather is not the case. You being friendly might be maknig it easier for them to belittle the problem; they don't see it worth dealing with.

Try hard not to let "feeling squished" overwhelm you in the meeting. Remember you have everything on your side, starting with the relevant employment legislation. You are in the right. You are doing them a favour by trying to come to a civil agreement; not the other way round. It is not for you to be making sacrifices to fit in with them; rather the other way round. The ball is in their court not yours.

Thinking of you.

startAfire · 13/09/2011 07:35

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startAfire · 13/09/2011 07:40

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DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved · 14/09/2011 23:41

Great advice thanks all, thistledew I have done some more prep along the lines of your suggestions, thanks.

I have also written down a few 'broken record' sentences to learn & repeat ad nausium to get them to stick to the point...

Cross fingers for me tomorrow afternoon!

OP posts:
Catitainahatita · 15/09/2011 03:23

Fingers crossed here in anticipation (although it's still Wednesday over here). Will be thinking about you tomorrow morning (afternoon for you!)
Good luck.

startAfire · 15/09/2011 07:20

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Message withdrawn

Catitainahatita · 20/09/2011 16:35

Bump
Any update for us DoubleLife?

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved · 25/09/2011 03:04

So sorry not to post earlier, physical collapsed after the meeting due to pushing self beyond limits in order to prepare for it, & now on Phone which is excruitiating to type on so will keep it short...

A. Meeting was grudging in

OP posts:
DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved · 25/09/2011 03:14

Sorry phone typing bloody awful....

A. Grudging & hard, used many techniques on here, couldn't have done it without thank u
B. Got most of what I needed, some adjustments easier than others... Physical ones easiest, hours & ability to work from home grudging but agreed, role change to make everything possible really really grudging, pay review laughed in my face at...
C. At end if meeting got told to do something that put me in an incredibly painful situation the following week... Showed they still don't actually care/ understand/ give a flying fuck...

So in all came out relieved It wasn't worse but knowing all my prep had been needed...

Then got their minutes of the meeting... Which strongly implies I am being demoted two levels & pay will be reviewed...

Am exhausted & depressed, I don't have anything left to fight with, all reserves have been used up, physically, mentally, emotionally. I am in a really dark place right now.

OP posts:
Catitainahatita · 26/09/2011 16:51

Oh no. Only just seen this Double; don't think that we have forgotten about you. It sounds like -if the demotion and pay cut are to happen-that you will need to proceed to legal arbitration (which I realise you don't want to do because of it tiring you further).
All I can say is that in the short term you need to rest and get over the meeting. Then think about how to proceed.
In the meantime I'm sending a unMN as I think you need it.

UsingPredominantlyTeaspoons · 26/09/2011 17:01

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

aliceliddell · 27/09/2011 12:19

Union! They should at least give you some advice. Try disability rights organisations who might help with some kind of advocate. I'm absolutely knackered so not totally with it atm, sorry.

KRITIQ · 27/09/2011 12:23

ACAS, try ACAS as well. Just really sorry to hear about what happened.

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