DD is pink and princessy and cares about hair etc and is only 5

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

So not like me.

I was brought up by progressive parents in the 70s, and got nothing but electronics kits for my birthdays - there was a cartoon I saw once with a little girl opening a chemistry kit and thinking "I would kill for a barbie" - that was me.

So I have not tried to sway in any particular direction. I am going to have to come up with a reasonable answer to "how do I become a princess?" "Mummy when are you going to be a princess?" Erm, never is the answer to both so far...

I think perhaps it is because the focus while growing up was not on appearance that it didn't matter that much to me, even when I was teenager. Yes, I wanted to look nice for special occasions but neither if my parents ever focussed on either mine or my brother's appearance and we were ALWAYS encouraged to play outside and have fun, never mind messing up a 'special dress' or whatever.

I suppose the thing that really irks me is what DirtyMartini said earlier that the focus for girls seems to be all on appearance, about how they look and that the 'pink princess' thing is just short-hand for that.

My DD is very pink orientated and I think she will grow out of it. I also agree totally with tethers that how she feels about the colour and her identity is more important than the colour. We can made pink and girly something to be ashamed of or celebrate the ability to choose.

Great post mathanxiety.

BTW I have 3 DD all brought up the same and D2 is a total tomboy. I think it would be wrong to reward her choices over the other two just because they are more 'girly'

My DD isnt a passive, non active girl because Im not. I think thats the main thing she is with me 24/7 she is loud cause I am. She is always climbing trees and getting muddy as she sees me up trees, on climbing frames, making dens every day (I work with her and she just does everything I do an
d I am a Forest School Leader).

She hates with a passion having her hair done but has only seen me use a hairdryer about 3 times so has never seen anyone spend a long time on her hair. I think at a young age mum is the biggest role model to them and they will want to be an exact copy of her.

She likes pink but in my early years experience ALL children like pink the best so much so they fight over who has pink that day (trust me its the biggest cause of arguments between boys and girls)

We had a breakthrough on holiday where dd had to 'give up' her 'pretty summer dress' to wear shorts so she could climb trees without it getting caught. This was a big thing as I really didn't want to say 'don't get your dress dirty' and made her see that a range of clothes are necessary dependent upon what you want to do.

I am not passive but my dd is my quietest child, the most discerning and the least likely to day hello. I find this quite hard as I, and the three boys, are not like this. Sometimes people say 'oh she's a girl' by way of an excuse and I reply 'No, it's because she's ddname'.

I agree that the deal is more that boys shouldn't do 'girls' things, this goes on doesn't it. What boys want to be nurses, primary school teachers, nursery workers? If a boy's not great at school he can be a builder not a carer.

dd went through a phase of pink and princesses, influenced by her friends at kindergarten. I went along with it rather than forbid it but didn't actively encourage it. The phase lasted about 6 months and then she reverted to jeans, t shirts and trainers. She's now 9 and won't go near pink, rarely wears skirts and has her own, very unfussy "signature" style. 3yo ds is showing more interest in her Barbie dolls than she ever did.

I do tell the boys not to hit girls, tell them not to hit eachother too...but I say 'boys do not hit girls, it's wrong'

Anyone who says they raise their (boy/girl) children exactly the same, or who claims that they were raised in exactly the same way as some other person (of the opposite sex) is fooling themselves.

1 - We are raised as much by society and our peers as by our parents, and you/your children are living in a world that draws distinctions along gender lines

2 - When adults are given tiny babies to hold they treat them differently and describe their behaviour differently depending on whether they are in a pink or blue babygrow. Even adults who claim that they don't treat boy and girl children differently.

You are probably not treating your children as equally as you think you are, and even if you were, the rest of the world isn't.

Yy sAf definitely. I see it too. It is particularly obvious at times when chatting to my mum (Skype) or MIL (RL) and they see DS doing something they consider 'girly'. Playing with his 'baby'/hoovering with his toy Hoover/'dusting' etc they make a big point of either being very uncomfortable with it (MIL) or pointing out (Mum) that I must encourage him to do 'boy'things with daddy too. I don't quite know why pushing a toy wheelbarrow about it a 'boy' thing as I do most of the gardening and wheelbarrowing when not heavily pregnant, but it seems to be a much more acceptable passtime I wonder whether they will place the same pressure on DD when she's here. Will she also have to partake in both? I doubt it

Also, running around with a toy hammer randomly bashing things (not people) is encouraged and again.

I am guilty of dressing DS very much along accepted gender lines but do try to have a range of colours and am astounded at the negative comments when he wears his pink shirt. They aren't obviously negative but stuff like 'It's ok for him to wear that, it's obviously not girl's clothes' or 'It's a good thing he's so obviously a boy'

I really want to get DS a toy kitchen for Christmas (as does DH as he is a very proud cook) and was discussing this with my mum. And her reaction was, 'why don't you wait until DD is old enough?'

Sigh.

And I am guilt too of placing less value on the 'girly' stuff and a higher value on boy's things and activities.

Not just for DS but men and women in general, I mean.

Trillian - I agree. I'm really interested in feminist parenting and therefore more aware of how I treat my DD and DS. But I wouldn't kid myself I get it right all the time.

The one thing I've really noticed is that it's comparatively easy to treat them the same in a pro-active way - e.g. letting DS wear pink dresses, letting DD play with tools. Where it gets much, much harder is the passive - reacting to things. That's when instincts and years of my own gender brainwashing kick in. I find myself reinforcing stereotypes before I'm even aware of it.

And I can't do anything about the influences either are exposed to by their peers, and the older they get the more this is becoming apparent.

What math said.

In December I'll have three girls. DD1 (5) likes a mixture of things, she wants a telescope for Christmas, but also has a burning desire for Disney princess dresses. I think I'm doing fine with the buying stuff aspect, but when she throws a fit because her favourite dress is in the wash and starts wailing 'but I neeeeeed to be beautiful' my usual reaction 'you're beautiful regardless of what you're wearing' just seems to make it worse as it clearly matters to her at the moment.

Like a pp's DD, DD1 is very pretty and is also tiny and skinny which means she gets a lot of comments on her appearance. It is difficult for a child to not care about what they look like when the first thing new people say to her is 'aren't you pretty?' or 'isn't that a lovely dress?'

Jellybean208 - But if I want to do my hair with dd watching I can. If I want to dress nicely and she sees that then I can. Not liking climbing trees or building dens and therefore not passing that on to my daughter does not make me any less of a woman (or in fact of a feminist - I don't need to have hairy legs to believe in equality and 'see' the patriarchy in our society).

I tell dd that she is beautiful or pretty every day. I also praise character traits every day to balance it out. My mother never told me I was beautiful and I think it made me focus on my appearance in a negative, destructive way that has wasted a lot of time in my life. I am hoping to install a very blasé confidence in her looks in dd that makes her less conscious of her appearance on a day to day basis.

At the moment she is only 17 months and plays with a wide variety of toys. Currently her big obsessions are the mud in the pots in the garden, remote controls and mobile phones.

My dd1 (now 6) was always a very pink and princessy toddler - I just went with it. At the Royal Wedding though she started to understand more about real royalty rather than the Disney version. She now has a complete obsession with anything historically royal, such as Henry 8th and all his wives, real castles etc as well as Horrible Histories, which seems to be more about washing clothes in wee than pink and girliness. I think these things all run their course and there's not much point worrying about it!

Today my dd has found the 'lellikelly' make up... (my mother bought her the shoes!!) and has pink like a mask across her eyes, a black and red woollen dress that's way too small and bare legs, the dress is two inches past her bottom. If we were to venture out she would change....I would make her. None of my boys have been interested in make up, but DS3 loves a princess dress and sparkly Jessie boots.

My dd dresses like a girl, plays in a more subdued fashion mostly....she wants to talk to her dolls and play tea sets, the older boys didn't. She didn't watch TV or visit friends when she made these choices and she goes to a Montessori which is not gender stereotype enforcing at all. She is different, they're all different, but she fits into the girl mould.....she never picked up one her brothers cars and wanted to play.

Not naturally disposed to pink, no. DS3 might be though!

this thread has been helpful in terms of minding my language. i often rail against 'pink sparkly crap' but actually i don't see pink as 'girly' if it's a mountain bike, or ski helmet, or skateboard and pads.

but i do object to floaty dresses and 'dressing table' sets and bikes having stupid little baskets with characters on them or tassles that get in the way of proper biking...

when i say 'pink sparkly crap' i am actually meaning the impractical adornments on perfectly ordinary things that are added to make them 'appeal to girls'.
even when it comes to 'traditionally female' toys like dolls, irons, hoovers - why make them pink and sparkly? why are most dolls female? real household goods are not pink so why are 'girls toy' household items?

THAT to me is what stinks. not the pink itself.