Dominic Strauss-Kahn released

[aliceliddell]

There is no case to answer because Ms Diallo is an 'unreliable witness'. No medical or forensic evidence is relevant. When raped women are 'witnesses' in the legal system, their credibility is the topic of contention, not the evidence. The issue of consent is largely ignored. Criminal law requires 'presumption of innocence' and 'beyond reasonable doubt'. Is it this combination that results in an inadequate legal response to sexual violence or other factors? Can this be changed?

Jenny, there are some who argue the name of the accused should be withheld from reports of rape cases until and unless there is a conviction. That goes with the assumption that to be accused of rape is somehow far more damaging than to be accused of any other crime, including murder. However, it is my understanding that the reason those accused of rape are named in media reports is to encourage others who may be able to provide evidence in the case (e.g. witnesses, others who allege assault against the same person, etc.) to come forward.

If there is a media "blackout," there would not be the opportunity to appeal for other witnesses, which would of course be a downside to it.

Cheria - don't hate France when there are so many other countries equally deserving your hatred. Spread the loathe.

Sorry, I have had DSK overkill - the media here are obsessed and it is really upsetting to realise how bloody sexist they can be over here, women included. I really worry about bringin my daughter up here too, but not sure anywhere else is better.

jennyviathewindow

Not sure the banning of reporting of rape is necessary but you would achieve what you seek by not naming the accused, something which many have been asking for years...

I agree that the accused shouldn't be named - it seems a bit unfair.

I find DSK to be a deeply suspiscious character who, as SandB pointed out, initially lied about the situation.

However, it seems to me that we don't know the truth of the situation any more than those who claim Dialllo was fabricating her case. Nor do we know what really happened with Banon. Just as some will take this case to add to their own prejudices about women making false claims, some will take this case to add to their belief that powerful men can do what they want to women.

The civil case will proceed anyway, so let's see what happens with that.

I think we do know, however, that DSK is a serial womaniser of epic proportions and that his wife turns a blind eye (perhaps because she hoped to become the First Lady of France).

CRIKRI - very good point. This is, therefore, one aspect of the situation where the allegations are supported rather than the defendant's possible innocence. I haven't seen this acknowledged before.

Fewcloudy - I wasn't 'seeking' this, I was just putting it out there for discussion. I agree with the status quo on the basis of Crikri's argument. Please be careful with the assumptions you make.

Bonsoir - I can't think of many powerful men who are not womanisers. Perhaps when young attractive women stop throwing themselves at the feet of aged millionaires this will cease to be the case.

No one is claiming to have the definitive version of the truth. But as long as none of us are involved in the case we are all entitled to our opinion based on what facts are known.

These are:
Forensic evidence proves that 'rough' sex had taken place (regardless of whether or not that was consensual)

DSK originally lied about having sex with Ms Diallo and only changed his story when faced with evidence proving the contrary

DSK is at the centre of a number of allegations about sexual misconduct (to put it mildly)

Ms Diallo's version of events have been consistent throughout (her status as a 'liar' is based on other areas of her life, not this case)

Less than 6% of rape allegations are false.

Rapists do get away with rape. 94% of allegations are true and yet only 6-7% are ever prosecuted.

I am prepared to concede that yes ok, I will never know the exact truth of what went on it that room on that day. But IMO anyone who can look at these facts and decide that the likelihood is that DSK is a poor innocent man exploited by a manipulative lying woman is someone who either views most women as manipulative liars generally or at the very least has internalised most of the rape myths about women.

jennyviathewindow - just wondering what you're doing on a feminist thread? Because I'm quite sure that blaming women for the actions of men is NOT part of Feminism 101

jenny - DSK is a special case among them! Way out there. And so is bleeding Anne Sinclair. Not many French women I come across can understand her attitude.

Rape myths are not something dreamed up by feminists either. Their existence is well-documented by many different organisations, including those not generally known for their pro-feminist perspectives.

A nice example from the Times here fortunately viewable because it was written before the introduction of the pay wall.

sunshineandbooks

Ms Diallo told the prosecution 3 different versions of the event. According to reports from the prosecutors.

Boney can you find a link to that, please? I'm not aware of any inconsistencies related to the case, other than the fact that she didn't report the rape straightaway, which has an eminently plausible explanation and is a common occurrence for a rape victim (see rape myths link posted earlier).

about half way down

One of the inconsistencies is that she said she left the room and went to complain immediately, but in fact went into another room first.

Another is that she apparently denied having unrelated, consensual sex the night before, when in fact she admitted to doing so later. This apparently would explain the red marks and bruising though personally I am fairly sure a doctor would be able to decide how recent the red marks are ie within the last couple of hours or a couple of days old.... Anyway...

Boney I personally don't consider those three versions to be anything like as big as DSK's lie that he hadn't been there at the time and that he certainly hadn't had sex with her. Don't see why a case would fall apart on that.

Cheria

all I know is what I have read and I tend to follow Ben Franklin's
?Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.?

unless the 25 page document is fully reported we may never know why the prosecutor have a lack of faith in Ms Diallo.

There must be more to it.

SandB,

If you take the last two of your points, you are suggesting that it is ok to use statistical evidence / the majority of cases to judge all scenarios. I'm sure you can see that this is flawed.

Your third point appears to be disputed.

Your second point, again, takes issues outside the situation as a method of judging the matter. Again I think this is flawed.

So, all you have really is the first point. Being married and in a position of some prominence, is there no other reason why he may have initially lied though? Of course there is.

Which brings me back to my initial assertion; if you believe Diallo is telling the truth, you are little different from those who believe she is not. In each case, people are fitting the 'facts' as they view them to their own point of view.

I agree - a good look at the doc might clarify things. I don't understand though why it's falling apart now, and why so many court cases have gone ahead on much less than forensic evidence.

Oh JosieRosie... the old 'your views aren't valid if you aren't onboard' line. Haven't seen that in a few days.

I'm not sure noting that rich powerful men often have a history of young attractive girlfriends is blaming women for men's faults is it? Perhaps you could explain how it is.

Who is Josie Rosie?

Hi Cheria, I live in France too and am sick of hearing rape myth after rape myth.

The press here is a bloody disgrace. DSK is quite obviously a sexual predator - all this talk of being a 'womaniser' or 'ladies man' is doing my head in. He quite obviously is a sex predator plain and simple. I hate French attitudes to this sort of thing. The man is a disgrace and has openly lied about what happened. We know he is a liar and has a history of sexual harassment/assault - why ON EARTH do so many people want to defend him?

France really is behind the times when it comes to women's rights. Ok it isn't Saudi Arabia, but definitely worse than the UK.

'Perhaps when young attractive women stop throwing themselves at the feet of aged millionaires this will cease to be the case'

You're not noting their relationship history, you're blaming these women for the men's behaviour. Which is a pretty 'old line' itself.